CHESED=Grace

Shoshanna Walker rosewalk at concentric.net
Wed Jan 16 15:00:54 EST 2002


>
> Shoshana, I'm not asking for your opinions, I'm asking for
> verse numbers.

Why not, you gave us your opinion

I told you - I do not have the software (or a concordance) here at work

I will look up verses when I have the software to do so, available.

I might have to be reminded, as I will not be home and finished with running
my children's errands until 8:30, and I will be very tired

shoshanna



> Liz
>
> > >
> > > Independent of deserving it if you're in the covenant.
> > > I know of its usage with David, and it's in the context
> > > of a covenant relationship between God and him.
> > > So if you have other examples, I'd like to see where it
> > > has nothing to do with a covenantal relationship.
> >
> >
> > I don't have my Torah software here, I am at the computer at work, so I
> > can't look up all the places where the word appears.
> >
> > Chesed is a QUALITY of G-d.  G-d is the source of all chesed in the
world.
> >
> >
> > > For example, is there hesed between one persona and
> > > another
> >
> >
> > Yes, of course - I mentioned charity as an example of chesed
> >
> >
> > or is only between God and man??
> > > Is it unidirectional, or bi-directional?
> >
> > Either -  the distinction does not apply
> >
> >
> > > The hesed of David wouldn't refer to his mercy to GOd,
> > > but his loyalty.
> >
> >
> > Please give that reference so I can look it up
> >
> > shoshanna
> >
> > > Liz
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Shoshanna Walker [mailto:rosewalk at concentric.net]
> > > > Sent: Wed, January 16, 2002 2:16 PM
> > > > To: Biblical Hebrew
> > > > Subject: Re: CHESED=Grace
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > That is not what it means, because it refers to kindness or an act
of
> > > > kindness which is bestowed independently of the recipient's
> > > > deserving it or
> > > > not.
> > > >
> > > > It is also not only an action, but a quality which is
> > attributed to G-d
> > > >
> > > > Charity is an example (not definition) of Chesed
> > > >
> > > > Shoshanna
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > I think it should be "covenant loyalty," fealty,
> > > > > what the sovereign owes the vassal, and what the vassal
> > > > > owes his lord.
> > > > > Liz
> > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: Shoshanna Walker [mailto:rosewalk at concentric.net]
> > > > > > Sent: Wed, January 16, 2002 1:57 PM
> > > > > > To: Biblical Hebrew
> > > > > > Subject: Re: CHESED=Grace
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Yes, lovingkindness or mercy
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Exactly
> > > > > >
> > > > > > shoshanna
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The understanding I have of the word chesed is that it is
> > translated
> > > > as
> > > > > > > grace, mercy or lovingkindness.
> > > > > > > >From "The Place of Faith and Grace in Judaism" by David
> > > > R.Blumenthal.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Christine Bass
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > > > > From: "George Athas" <gathas at hotkey.net.au>
> > > > > > > To: "Biblical Hebrew" <b-hebrew at franklin.oit.unc.edu>
> > > > > > > Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 5:52 AM
> > > > > > > Subject: CHESED
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > The second question might refer to a different word
> > > > > > altogether--khesed,
> > > > > > > > > which is notoriously difficult to translate into English
> > > > > > but probably
> > > > > > > gets
> > > > > > > > > rendered both as "righteousness" and "charity" in English
> > > > > > versions. It
> > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > > often understood as something like "covenant
> > > > faithfulness," but I
> > > > > > don't
> > > > > > > > > know that that really captures the sense either.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > It's not that hard to translate CHESED into English. I go
> > > > for either
> > > > > > > "commitment" or "devotion".
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Best regards,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > GEORGE ATHAS
> > > > > > > > (Sydney, Australia)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
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