TOHUW WA BOHUW in Gen & Jer.

Jason A. Hare language_lover64801 at
Fri Apr 5 06:11:16 EST 2002

> In the discussion following Lawrence's first post, did anyone try to answer
> his question?
> >destruction by the Chaldeans and Israel's enemies. I believe Genesis 1:2
> describes the
> >Earth after the rebellion of  Lucifer and his followers. What linguistic
> analysis is
> >there that would deny this interpretation?
> I'll give it a try:  No linguistic analysis of the text will confirm nor
> deny an interpretation concerning "Lucifer and his followers" since they
> are present nowhere in the text.
> Maybe I misunderstood the question?

I think I want to take it even a step further and suggest (as most on the
list already know) that not only does Gen 1.1ff not give any reference to
"Lucifer and his followers," but that *no passage* in the entire Tanakh
gives such a reference!  Perhaps the references that are always cited
(Isaiah 14 and Ezekiel 28) should be read again, this time *in context*
and taking historical accounts into the mental faculties while
reading/studying.  Even Origen, so far back in Christian tradition, stated
that there was no firm scriptural merit to the idea of a "fallen angel"
becoming "the devil," but that people believed it because it was a
commonly-held opinion.  It is too bad that teachers cannot see that today
(within the religious camp).  Too many things are read into the passages. 
Opinions become fact, and we find verses to back it up.

As a side note for off-list reply: does anyone know of any early Jewish
reference (in the Talmud or a Midrash) that states a clear belief in this
"fallen angel" idea (other than some discussion on the Nephilim and their
circumstances)?  I would love to know when this teaching really took hold
and what are its roots.  I have read that the Talmudic opinion of Satan is
that he is the death angel.  He never openly rebelled against God, but he
is viewed as "bad" in the way that we view death as "bad."  Any references
or opinions for off-list discussion?

language_lover64801 at

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