2 Ki 2:23-24

Shoshanna Walker rosewalk at concentric.net
Mon Jul 16 21:23:46 EDT 2001


>
> > No, I am claiming that G-d wrote it,
>
>I agree.

>
> > not ancient writers,
>
>Based on Ex. 17:14; 34:27; & Deut. 31:24, i can't agree with your dichotemy.


What don't you agree with?

>
>
> > that the Torah is
> > much more than a literary work,
>
>I agree. It's much *more* than mere literature,


Well, actually it contains within it, everything that was, is and 
will be, as well as being an "instruction manual" for proper living, 
on the level of the spiritual health, harmony and well-being of all 
that exists.


>but a divine revelation does not exclude a literary character. 
>Deuteronomy is in the form of a suzerain's covenant treaty common to 
>Moses' day, for example. The literary structure thus emphasizes the 
>message of the book.
>
>God used common human literary forms and structures, as well as 
>common human grammar and vocabulary, as part of the vehicle whereby 
>He communicated His truth to man. What problem do you have with this 
>concept?


I don't have any problem with that, however didn't we have an almost 
endless and tiresome discussion of
Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh, those that would not accept that Ehyeh was future, 
basing their arguments that grammar was not that relevant in the 
Torah?  I wasn't one of those who discounted grammar.  Certainly all 
of the Jewish commentaries that I was able to look up that day, 
referred to the phrase as being entirely in the future tense.

>
> > and that every single letter is there for a
> > reason, and that the reason is not for variety.
>
>I possibly agree, in theory, since i believe God's providence is 
>extended to all things, including each letter you and i may be 
>writing in these e-mails. But what do you do with the many places 
>where the letters are different in different extant MSS?


Where?


>How do you select the original spelling and identify the devious 
>(variant) spelling(s)? Is God still giving out the information to 
>you concerning which variant is the correct one today -- or must it 
>be induced scientifically (by textual criticism)?


You go to the aggada, to the commentators, to the commentaries on the 
commentators, to the Mishna, to the Talmud, to Kabballa, there you 
can find exactly what the unbroken and later written down oral 
tradition always knew.  The Torah was never meant to be understood 
only literally word for word.

I have never seen any variation in any of the Hebrew Torah texts
>
>Dan Wagner
>
> >
> > Shoshanna
> >
> >
> >
> > Shoshanna,
> >
> > Are you claiming that ancient BH writer(s) were incapable of free 
>variation?
> > Is that a uniquely modern literary discovery? Is it not a acceptable
> > "reason" to use a particular word for literary/stylistic purposes alone?
> >
> > (I am not intending to argue for free variation in this particular context
> > necessarily, but asking the larger question of whether it is possible in
> > general.)
> >
> > Dan Wagner
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: Shoshanna Walker <rosewalk at concentric.net>
> > To: Biblical Hebrew <b-hebrew at franklin.oit.unc.edu>
> > Sent: Monday, July 16, 2001 12:25 PM
> > Subject: Re: 2 Ki 2:23-24
> >
> >
> > >
> > > In the Torah, every single word is there for a reason, even 
>some words are
> > > missing letters, etc. - it is all very precise.
> > >
> > > You can't really have a full understanding by just brushing it off as
> > > "variety"
> > >
> > > Rashi says that his voice was that of a youth.
> > >
> > > I don't have all the commentators in front of me, nor would I be able to
> > > understand them all, but they do address this.
> > >
> > > Shoshanna
> >
> >
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> >
> >
> >
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