Eden's rivers

Shoshanna Walker rosewalk at concentric.net
Wed Aug 22 22:22:37 EDT 2001

I have no doubt that some day it will be revealed, where Gan Eden and 
its rivers, was/is.

Maybe not in our lifetime, but it will be revealed, have no doubts!



Dear Peter,

You are quite right about the many different theories. No one has been able
to find a river that divides into four heads or branches. Those arguing for
Eden in Mesopotamia do so on the basis of the mention of the Tigris and
Euphrates. They posit other streams that empty into these streams as
tributaries or which empty into the Shatt al Arab, which empties into the
Persian Gulf. All have to acknowledge however, that the source of the Tigris
and Euphrates is not the river of Eden. The sources of these two rivers are
in the mountains of Turkey, they do not arise from one river.  So, if
geography "proves" the Bible wrong, that there is no river of Eden, what is
the recourse ?  A common answer given by those of faith is that God
destroyed Eden with Noah's flood and thus the reason the Edenic river cannot
be located. Geologists understand there was no Noah's Flood covering the
entire world. So Humanists/Rationalists don't buy that argument. The only
other "rational" argument has to be that the Edenic river is based on
imperfect knowledge and fantasy. What river feeds the Gihon in Cush, below
Egypt (please note that the Early Fathers of the Christian Church accepted
Jewish notions that the Gihon was the Nile) and the Tigris and Euphrates in
Mesopotamia ? Geography will tell you there is none. But Greek and Egyptian
myths will tell you that the Nile/Gihon arises from the Oceanic river that
encircles the world. This freshwater stream called by the Homeric Greeks
"river Ocean" is the source of all the world's rivers. Here then is the only
possible source for the Tigris and Euphrates in Mesopotamia and the Gihon in
Cush/Egypt, a mythological river. The urls for Eden are


All the best, Walter

Walter Reinhold Warttig Mattfeld
Walldorf by Heidelberg
Baden-Wurttemburg, Germany

----- Original Message -----
From: Peter Kirk <Peter_Kirk at sil.org>
To: Biblical Hebrew <b-hebrew at franklin.oit.unc.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2001 11:22 PM
Subject: RE: New Eden Article

> One more piece of data here: I have read that the Amu Darya or Oxus river,
> one of the main rivers draining the Pamir region, is sometimes known as
> Jeyhun, which is the Arabic version of Gihon. David Rohl, on the other
> found data to suggest that the Araz/Araxes was once called Jeyhun, and he
> uses that to support his theory (put forward in his book "Legend") that
> was located on the site of modern Tabriz, Iran. But the variety of
> theories leads me to think that we will never be able to do more than
> which is correct.
> Peter Kirk
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: kymsabq [mailto:kymsabq at yahoo.com]
> > Sent: 20 August 2001 22:28
> > To: Biblical Hebrew
> > Subject: Re: New Eden Article
> >
> >
> > Hello Walter,
> >
> > After reading your last post regarding the location of the garden of
> > and then this latest one I thought it good if I let you know about yet
> > another place that many people believe to be the location of the garden
> > Eden.  In fact, many Asiatic people take this information for granted as

> > true.
> >
> > It is interesting to read Sargon's Chronicle which, although authored in
> > Mesopotamia, spoke of Eden as being in yet a different place.  The Pamir
> > Plateau is considered by some to be the Garden of Eden and the Tarim
> > is the location of the flood of Noah's time that brought an end to the
> > influx of the hybrid offspring of men and fallen angels, the giants.
> >
> > There was such a flood noted as taking place in the Tarim Basin in
> > history (the Shu-King), in which an individual named Fu-hi built
> > an ark and
> > loaded it up with animals and went through exactly the same
> > things that Noah
> > did at exactly the same time frame, as the Chinese history places this
> > deluge in the reign of Emporer Yaou.  In case you take a look at
> > a map, the
> > Tamir Basin is in Eastern Turkistan.  This also opens one's eyes
> > a bit when
> > you take into account that Cain was driven out and went to Nod, which
> > even more eastward of the Pamir Plateau and Tamir Basin area.  By the
> > there are four rivers in this area and keep in mind that "Euphrates"
> > from the word PERATH, which implies "a river of the east", so it
> > just may be
> > that people are looking for the wrong Euphrates. While you are looking
> > the map, note that the CUSH mountains are in this area and the Gihon
> > there.  The Pison has been attributed to the Ganges for centuries.
> >
> > I hope that you find this information interesting and useful.  I have
> > on this topic if you are interested.
> >
> > kyms
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Walter Mattfeld" <mattfeld at mail.pjsnet.com>
> > To: "Biblical Hebrew" <b-hebrew at franklin.oit.unc.edu>
> > Sent: Monday, August 20, 2001 9:51 AM
> > Subject: New Eden Article
> >
> >
> > > Available is a new article on Eden supplementing my earlier
> > Eden article,
> > > titled
> > >
> > > "The Garden of Eden not Aden in the Yemen, but Wadi
> > Adhana/Dhana at Ma`rib
> > > ?"
> > >
> > > In an earlier article on the Garden of Eden I argued that the
> > port of Aden
> > > in the Yemen preserved the name Eden. More recent research on
> > my part has
> > > caused me to realize I am in error to a degree. I now
> > understand that the
> > > "prototype" or "historical kernel" underlying the Garden of
> > Eden story is
> > > events occurring at the ancient capital of the Kingdom Sheba called
> > Ma`rib.
> > > The problem in identifying the port of Aden with Eden, is its
> > It
> > > lies in a desolate area which only receives 3 inches of rain annually.
> > There
> > > is no garden here.  I  have come to realize that the Koran has
> > preserved a
> > > valuable clue to Eden's location, the 34th Sura mentions two gardens
> > Saba
> > > (Sheba)...
> > >
> > >
> > > Walter Reinhold Warttig Mattfeld
> > > Walldorf by Heidelberg
> > > Baden-Wurttemburg, Germany
> > > www.bibleorigins.net
> > >
> ---
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