Atonement vs Redemption

Paul-Jennifer Schaefer paul-jennifer_schaefer at sil.org
Fri Aug 17 22:24:50 EDT 2001


>>An excellent discussion of kipper (which is usually translated atonement) can 
>>be found in Jacob Milgrom's Anchor Bible Commentary on Leviticus Vol 1.
>>He is the authority on the subject, to my way of thinking anyway.
     
     
>In order to understand the Torah, especially concepts such as these, 
>you have to go to JEWISH sources.  There is no other authority.
     
     
     I have been enjoying this interesting discussion.  But I'm a little 
     confused.  Are you saying Jacob Milgrom isn't a Jewish source?  The 
     Anchor series is an interfaith work (including Moshe Greenberg of 
     Hebrew University for the Ezekiel volume), and in any case Milgrom 
     also writes for the JPS Torah commentary (the Numbers volume).  That 
     seems to place his commentary on Torah as a reasonably Jewish source.
     
     Paul Schaefer

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<excerpt><fontfamily><param>Arial</param><color><param>0000,0000,FFFF</param><sm
aller>An
excellent discussion of kipper (which is usually translated atonement)
can

be found in Jacob Milgrom's Anchor Bible Commentary on Leviticus Vol
1.

He is the authority on the subject, to my way of thinking anyway.

</smaller></color></fontfamily></excerpt><fontfamily><param>Arial</param><color>
<param>0000,0000,FFFF</param><smaller>


</smaller></color></fontfamily>In order to understand the Torah,
especially concepts such as these, you have to go to JEWISH sources.
There is no other authority.


<excerpt>

<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><color><param>0000,0000,FFFF</param><smaller>The
word translated redeem is pdh. YHWH redeemed the Jews from

Egyptian bondage. Redeem doesn't have anything to do with sin.

</smaller></color></fontfamily></excerpt><fontfamily><param>Arial</param><color>
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</smaller></color></fontfamily>It has to do with saving.  Podeh
UMatzil



<excerpt>

<fontfamily><param>Arial</param><color><param>0000,0000,FFFF</param><smaller>Kip
per
does, but the meaning of sin, HT), is completely different from

the CHristian notion.



It must be remembered that it is the altar that is atoned for.

</smaller></color></fontfamily></excerpt><fontfamily><param>Arial</param><color>
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</smaller></color></fontfamily>Huh???



<excerpt><fontfamily><param>Arial</param><color><param>0000,0000,FFFF</param><sm
aller>The
sin of the individual (such as when she menstruates) affects

the altar. The altar is then kippered by the blood of the sacriffice.

It is only by constantly purging the altar with sacrificial blood is

YHWH willing to remain in the temple. When the sins become

so great that the altar cannot be purged,

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</smaller></color></fontfamily>G-d's "presence" in the Temple,  has to
do with redemption


KPR, atonement, did NOT exclusively happen in the Temple with blood
sacrifice, on an altar.



<excerpt><fontfamily><param>Arial</param><color><param>0000,0000,FFFF</param><sm
aller>then
he leaves the temple,

and it becomes vulnerable to destruction. This is what happened

in 586 bce, and again in 70. Ezekiel describes YHWH leaving the

temple, and causing it to be destroyed. Later prophets describe

his return: Isaiah 40-55, Ezekiel 40-48, Zechariah 1-8.



When there is no altar, as now, there is nothing to kipper, the

issue is really moot.

</smaller></color></fontfamily></excerpt><fontfamily><param>Arial</param><color>
<param>0000,0000,FFFF</param><smaller>


</smaller></color></fontfamily>Not really moot at all.


Shoshanna


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