Jack Kilmon jkilmon at
Fri Sep 1 15:48:55 EDT 2000

----- Original Message -----
From: "Liz Fried" <lizfried at>
To: "Biblical Hebrew" <b-hebrew at>
Sent: Friday, September 01, 2000 12:19 PM
Subject: RE: Israel

> Bill, you're assuming that the story actually occurred, and that there was
> no
> people Israel prior to the story.
> Whereas I, on the otherhand, think the name existed, and the story was
> created as
> a post hoc etiology on the name.
> Therefore, I don't think the story is at all relevant in the derivation of
> the name.
> What is relevant are other tribal names from the ane. How are other
> named?
> How do they choose name for themselves, what is the linguistics behind
> names?
> That is the approach one should take, imo.
> Now, does anyone know of another people or tribe that has a theophoric in
> it?

The first time "Israel" appears in the epigraphy is on the Merneptah Stele
to 12th century BCE.  It doesn't appear again until the 7th or 8th century
but it refers to an incident that dates historically or mythologically to
bronze age.  It is probably safe to assumr that the name "Israel" on the
Merneptah stele does not refer to a country or defined nation but to a
people who "persevere" for their deity in spite of the hardships of a


taybutheh d'maran yeshua masheecha am kulkon

Jack Kilmon
jkilmon at

sharing a meal for free.

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