Liz Fried lizfried at
Fri Sep 1 15:19:25 EDT 2000

Bill, you're assuming that the story actually occurred, and that there was
people Israel prior to the story.
Whereas I, on the otherhand, think the name existed, and the story was
created as
a post hoc etiology on the name.
Therefore, I don't think the story is at all relevant in the derivation of
the name.
What is relevant are other tribal names from the ane. How are other peoples
How do they choose name for themselves, what is the linguistics behind their
That is the approach one should take, imo.
Now, does anyone know of another people or tribe that has a theophoric in


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bill Ross [mailto:wross at]
> Sent: Friday, September 01, 2000 3:02 PM
> To: Biblical Hebrew
> Subject: RE: Israel
> <Jack>
> Persevere for God?  Power from God?
> <Bill>
> It struck me one day as I was reading Genesis how sharply the
> incident where
> Iaakov wrestles all night yet perserveres contrasts with Esau,
> who, after a
> day of hunting is "so hungry he could die" and lets go of his blessing.
> Since this name is a reward for perserverence, I would be surprised if it
> should be understood any other way than "perserveres with God", though I
> don't know if the grammar allows that reading or not.
> Bill Ross
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