from/until question

yochanan bitan ButhFam at compuserve.com
Fri Jan 21 02:34:15 EST 2000


sorry guys (valley-speak c gender=m+f), i got one of those
"Sorry, your message was not sent out to 'b-hebrew'
because the first line of the message is identical"
messages.

so here is my message:

greg doudna wrote:
>If an ancient writer of biblical Hebrew wished to express a
>temporal period beginning in the past and ending in the
>future, what type of construction would naturally be used
>to express this?
>
>MN...'D, "from X....until Y", =

>...  e.g. an iterative action occurring
>throughout the temporal period, if it starts in the past, is
>presently ongoing, and is expected to continue until some
>endpoint in the future?
>
>This is not a simple question to answer even in English . . .

we'll start with the normal and then jump to something special.

both hebrew participles and yiqtols can signal something open-ended going=

into the future in hebrew.
e.g. `ad matai atem posHim ... 'until when will you be hopping around ...=
?
' 1K18.21
`ad matai  titHamaqin 'until when will you be dodging ...? jer 31.22

those were 'normal'. but what happens when something complete is thrown i=
n
the picture?
something that in english might sound like =

"until when will you have had been doing ...?"  =

almost impossible english. i wonder if it could be done in hebrew?

from last week's parasha:
`ad matai me'anta lehe`anot ? 'until when will you have had been refusing=

to submit before me?' ex 10.3

the refusal was complete in the past, habitual, and future. =

hebrew's underdifferentiated verb system can handle this.

braxot
randall buth

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Date: Wed, 19 Jan 2000 15:17:56 -0500
From: yochanan bitan <ButhFam at compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: from/until question
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greg doudna wrote:
>If an ancient writer of biblical Hebrew wished to express a
>temporal period beginning in the past and ending in the
>future, what type of construction would naturally be used
>to express this?
>
>MN...'D, "from X....until Y", =

>...  e.g. an iterative action occurring
>throughout the temporal period, if it starts in the past, is
>presently ongoing, and is expected to continue until some
>endpoint in the future?
>
>This is not a simple question to answer even in English . . .


we'll start with the normal and then jump to something special.

both hebrew participles and yiqtols can signal something open-ended going=

into the future in hebrew.
e.g. `ad matai atem posHim ... 'until when will you be hopping around ...=
?
' 1K18.21
`ad matai  titHamaqin 'until when will you be dodging ...? jer 31.22

those were 'normal'. but what happens when something complete is thrown i=
n
the picture?
something that in english might sound like =

"until when will you have had been doing ...?"  =

almost impossible english. i wonder if it could be done in hebrew?

from last week's parasha:
`ad matai me'anta lehe`anot ? 'until when will you have had been refusing=

to submit before me?' ex 10.3

the refusal was complete in the past, habitual, and future. =

hebrew's underdifferentiated verb system can handle this.

braxot
randall buth

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