SV: Gen 2:17: Dying thou shalt die

Thomas L. Thompson tlt at teol.ku.dk
Tue Aug 22 05:11:06 EDT 2000




> -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
> Fra:	Thomas L. Thompson 
> Sendt:	22. august 2000 11:10
> Til:	'Liz Fried'
> Emne:	SV: Gen 2:17: Dying thou shalt die
> 
> Dear Liz,
> The snake was absolutely right. That is the role he plays in the story. My
> point was the quite limited one that Jubilees' efforts to lengthen the day
> gives us evidence to read Genesis 2,17 as implying that they would in fact
> die on that day.
> 
> I also agree with you that the end of the story is patterned on the exile.
> How much of the story do you think implies that the garden is Jerusalem's
> or the temple's garden? This association becomes nearly explicit in the
> tower of Babel story.
> 
> Thomas
> 	-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
> 	Fra:	Liz Fried [SMTP:lizfried at umich.edu]
> 	Sendt:	21. august 2000 19:06
> 	Til:	Biblical Hebrew
> 	Emne:	RE: Gen 2:17: Dying thou shalt die
> 
> 	The point is that the snake was right,
> 	not God. Their eyes were opened (3:7), and they did not die
> 	on the day they ate it as God said they would (2:17).
> 
> 	Liz Fried
> 
> 	> -----Original Message-----
> 	> From: Thomas L. Thompson [mailto:tlt at teol.ku.dk]
> 	> Sent: Monday, August 21, 2000 11:43 AM
> 	> To: Biblical Hebrew
> 	> Subject: SV: Gen 2:17: Dying thou shalt die
> 	>
> 	>
> 	>
> 	>
> 	> > -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
> 	> > Fra:	Thomas L. Thompson
> 	> > Sendt:	21. august 2000 17:38
> 	> > Til:	'Dave Washburn'
> 	> > Emne:	SV: Gen 2:17: Dying thou shalt die
> 	> >
> 	> > Jubilees might help in this. The story in Genesis ends with
> 	> Adam living on
> 	> > and becoming the father of children outside the garden.
> 	> Jubilees addresses
> 	> > itself to the implications of Yahweh's words, that Adam will die
> on the
> 	> > day he eats of the tree. The author finds a solution to the
> seeming
> 	> > incoherence of 'you will surely die' by pointing out that in
> 	> Yahweh's eyes
> 	> > a thousand years is but a day. In God's eyes Adam does not live
> out that
> 	> > fateful day.
> 	> > Thomas
> 	> >
> 	> > 	-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
> 	> > 	Fra:	Dave Washburn [SMTP:dwashbur at nyx.net]
> 	> > 	Sendt:	21. august 2000 05:32
> 	> > 	Til:	Biblical Hebrew
> 	> > 	Emne:	Re: Gen 2:17: Dying thou shalt die
> 	> >
> 	> > 	Bill,
> 	> > 	> <Bill>
> 	> > 	> The literal of Gen 2:17 seems to be:
> 	> > 	>
> 	> > 	> ...dying thou shalt die...
> 	> > 	>
> 	> > 	> which is generally translated "thou shalt surely die"
> 	> > 	>
> 	> > 	> * is this a fairly certain translation? could it be taken
> 	> > unidiomatically?
> 	> >
> 	> > 	I'm not sure what you mean by "unidiomatically" since it's a
> 	> > 	common Hebrew idiom; "going you shall go," "dying you shall
> die,"
> 	> > 	"loving you shall love" etc.  It's a Hebrew way of
> emphasizing the
> 	> > 	sureness of something: "this will most definitely happen" or
> "you
> 	> > 	will most certainly do this."  We see a similar construction
> in
> 	> > 	Jonah 1 where the sailors "feared a great fear."  As my
> first-year
> 	> > 	Hebrew teacher said so many many years ago, "feared a fear"
> is
> 	> > 	emphatic enough, but when you add "great" it probably means
> 	> > 	some of them had to go change their underwear.  Using
> cognate
> 	> > 	forms like this was a "normal" (whatever that word means)
> way that
> 	> > 	Hebrew strengthened the force of something like "die."
> 	> >
> 	> > 	> * does the construct appear elsewhere in Scripture?
> 	> >
> 	> > 	All over the place.
> 	> >
> 	> > 	> * does anyone respectable champion another reading?
> 	> >
> 	> > 	Not that I am aware of.  No one unrespectable that I've seen
> either
> 	> > 	;-)
> 	> >
> 	> >
> 	> > 	Dave Washburn
> 	> > 	http://www.nyx.net/~dwashbur
> 	> > 	"Éist le glór Dé."
> 	> >
> 	> > 	---
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> 
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