Gen 2:17: Dying thou shalt die

Jim West jwest at
Mon Aug 21 14:16:44 EDT 2000

At 01:38 PM 8/21/00 -0400, you wrote:

>Jim, if you don't mind my saying so, this is a very Christian, Pauline,

surely you cant expect me to step out of my shell and interpret the text
from another foreign perspective can ya?

>In what sense can you say their relationship with God ended????

they were expelled from his presence.

>Or that they died in a "spiritual" sense. I don't even know what that means.

it means that their personal relationship to god ended on that day.  it was
ruptured and fragmented by their disobedience.

>God had them leave the garden, but they didn't leave *him*.

now i am in the position you earlier espoused--- what does that "mean"?

>Eve says, after leaving the garden, "I have acquired a man from(?) YHWH."

where else is she gonna get one?

>YHWH is intimately involved with the doings of their sons.
>When Cain kills Abel, YHWH put a mark on Cain, a mark of God's protection,
>so that whoever killed Cain would suffer a 7-fold vengeance.
>There is no way the relationship with God ended.

it did end.  now God is their judge and jury- not their walking in the
garden buddy.

>To view it this way is a Christological, Pauline, reading, imo.

again.... whos to say paul was wrong?  he was a jew.  he adhered to the
synagogue all his life.  how is his reading specifically christian?

>It creates a problem, and then brings in the death of Christ to
>repair the problem.

disobedience creates a problem for all of us.

>The story really is meant to show that God has a sustaining loving
>relationship with you even tho you are not in your promised land.

perhaps.  but perhaps not.  this is your reading.  whos to say yours is
right whilst pauls is wrong???

>It probably stems from the Babylonian exile.

i agree-- i would even say the hellenistic period.

>People sin, are exiled, but God puts his mark on you,
>sustains you, provides progeny.

i agree again.  but how does this reading negate the fact that it was their
disobedience that caused the exile in the first place?  and how does it
negate the fact that they were driven away from god by god himself?

>This was also the message of Ezekiel:
>God sustains you, cares for you, even in a strange new land.

i agree.  but now- because you have disobeyed- you cannot be as near to god
as you once were.


you too liz



"going around stirring up apathy "

Jim West, ThD

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