Debtor to Roger L. Kimmel, No. 2

shella shella at
Wed Nov 3 00:05:06 EST 1999

Dear Roger, here is my brief reply to your second post to me.  I am thankful
that you have moderated your reply somewhat and did not say the terrible
personal things to me that you said in your first post.  I really don't believe
any list fellowship needs any personal attacks nor personal vindication's, do

"Roger L.. Kimmel" wrote:

> To Debtor:
> "The Jewish Encyclopedia", pub. 1905 is hardly a standard Jewish text.  Not
> only is it hopelessly out of date, it has never been used as a "standard"
> reference in any  scholarly discussion that I have ever seen.  The same also
> holds true for Louis Newman's "Influence on Christian Reform Movements",
> 1925.  I challenge you to show me in what way these two outdated, tertiary
> and secondary sources represent "standard Jewish texts".  What are you
> talking about?

Why, surely not just because you say so?  Please wait until I have posted up
their information and then show me and other where they are incorrect.
Furthermore, I have found in the a gold mine of mostly forgotten and neglected

Newman's great work shows, among other things, the close working between the
Dissenting Christians and the persecuted Jews during the dark ages.  One item of
importance is the Biblical Translation Movement in which Peter Waldo entered
into in an effort to place the Bible into the hands of the common people in the
100s.  He received much help from his Jewish friends in this.  Have you read
this very able, though old work?

> These two texts no more represent a consensus of Jewish thinking than
> articles quoted in "The Encyclopedia Britannica" represent  a standard of
> "English Language" thinking.  The texts represent the editor's and author's
> points of view respectively, but are not "standard Jewish texts".  I would
> further contend that there are no standard Jewish or standard Christian
> texts in the sense you use. These polarizations are not useful in a
> scholarly discussion.

I am not talking about texts, but testimony and historical sources.  Sorry if I
said anything which would suggest anything differently.  Your views against
encyclopedias remind me of the Papal attitude against the French
Encyclopediaists during the late 1700s.  You are not a Papist are you?  If you
are, then I can understand why you are anti encyclopedia.  It may be here for
you to understand that I realize that encyclopedias give a general picture and
then we must specialize.  That is what I am now doing after nearly 45 years of
research.  How long have you been involved in these studies?

> I see that the thread has changed names.  It used to be "Jewish Revisionism
> and Attempted Corruptions".  You have now toned down your rhetoric to
> "Debtor (Ron) on Old Testame(n)t Revisions". Surely this is a beginning,
> however, your relentless insistence on Jewish  corruption and revisionism
> against a standard of Christian purity smacks of Jew baiting and
> anti-Semitism.  I am sure that is not your intention, being the honorable
> and gentle individual you seem.

I change my headers as I deal with different subjects.  I am glad this gives you
a better attitude, and I hope in the future, this increased hope you do have
will not be in vain in any way.

I do find it strange that I would be considered as a Jew baiter because I use
Jewish works and Christian works which are pro Jewish.  If this is your idea of
a Jew baiter, then what would one be who used no Jewish works and only anti
Jewish Christian works?

> I hope that you find up to date references  when attempting to further this
> discussion. I am sure that others on this list, far more learned than myself,
> can assist you to this end.

Why, just because truth is old is no sign it is worthless.  The same is true of
old authors and their testimony.  I seem to discern some age discrimination
here.  Is this true?  The fact is that truth is true no matter its age.

The entire issue I am dealing with is much older and more involved than either
you or me.  I certainly hope that there will be others forth coming who, in a
true sprit of help and kindness, will assist me to determine if these things are
so or not?  One thing is for sure, it will take more than a personal attack to
do this.  Debtor (Ron).

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