Debtor to Roger L. Kimmel about Old Hebrew works, no 1

shella shella at
Tue Nov 2 23:44:24 EST 1999

Dear Dr. Kimmel, you wrote three posts to me, this one may not have made it to
the B-Hebrew list fellowship, so I include it now, and comment now on it.  I
will try to consider the other two and comment on them in due time.  There are
two more coming. So let me note your personal remarks and other things.

"Roger L.. Kimmel" wrote:

> Debtor,
> "The Jewish Encyclopedia", pub. 1905 is hardly a standard Jewish text.  Not
> only is it hopelessly out of date, it has never been used as a reference in
> any scholarly discussion that I have ever seen.  The same also holds true
> for Louis Newman's "Influence on Christain Reform Movements", 1925.  I
> challenge you to show me in what way these two outdated, tertiary and
> secondary sources represent "standard Jewish texts".  What are you talking
> about?

Why are these not accurate, simply because they are old?  I am not a revisionist
nor an existentialist.  I od not fear the truth no matter how old the references
may be.  If I said a standard Jewish Text when referring to standard Jewish
testimony, it was a mistake.  I never meant they were standard Jewish Texts, but
testimony.  But to return, what was theory in 1905 may still be theory, but what
was truth then is still truth today in this issue.

> You are, under your lamb's suit, an antisemitic wolf, sir.  You are, in my
> opinion , engaged in Jew baiting among other reprehensible acts egregious to
> any scholarly discussion.  Your views belong elsewhere, not in a scholarly
> discussion list.  If most list members feel otherwise, so be it.  I will
> gladly unsubscribe.

This is a terrible thing to say, but I have been called worse. I forgive you.
However, I didn't expect it from distinguished Jewish or Hebrew friends.

> This nonsense of "debtor's", however, is outrageous stuff which I will no
> longer sit by and listen to.  Most of us have moved beyond the Jew against
> Gentile hostility that debtor represents.  I ask this
> list to stand behind me, and demand a scholarly exchange of viewpoints, not
> this rubbish.

Since it is so full of unproved rubbish, then it  follows that you will not need
to make personal attacks against me personally, correct?  Debtor.

> Roger L. Kimmel, M.D.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: shella <shella at>
> To: Biblical Hebrew <b-hebrew at>
> Sent: Monday, November 01, 1999 7:41 AM
> Subject: Debtor (Ron) on Old Testamet Revisions
> > Dear Brothers and Sisters and friends, let me note that there seems to be
> some
> > questions around the Great Assembly and its Canonization of the original
> Hebrew Old
> > Testament Text.  There are related questions also about the Hebrew's first
> translation
> > of this Text into other languages in general and the Greek in particular.
> Therefore,
> > it may be best for me to slow down and deal wit these two points in
> greater details.
> > The majority of my quotations will come from The Jewish Encyclopedia, a
> multi volume
> > set original gathered under Isidore Singer's Managing editorship and
> published near
> > 1905 by Funk and Wagnalls.  This entire set has been published later,
> sometime near
> > the 1960s I believe by KTAV publishing House, Inc.  This set and also
> Louis Israel
> > Newman's Jewish INfluence on Christian Reform Movements, published in New
> York by
> > Columbia University Press, 1925, are both standard Jewish works.  There
> are two
> > Christian works which I feel are worthy of being considered,  Thomas H.
> Horne's An
> > INtroduction of the Critical Study and Knowledge of the Holy Scriptures,
> in several
> > volumes, my edition is from the 1839 edition.  Baker Book House
> republished it in
> > 1970.  Also the Jewish Encyclopedia quotes from Henry Barclay Swete's An
> Introduction
> > to The Old Testament in Greek, published near 1900s.  My copy is from the
> Hendrickson
> > edition of 1989.
> >
> > Therefore, there are two Hebrew Jewish and two Christian testimonies as to
> these
> > matters which I shall use.
> >
> > Let me ask this, would it be better for me to scan these articles from The
> Jewish
> > Encyclopedia and these other works?  It will take me more time, but I will
> be happy to
> > do this if many of you feel this will be better.  Please let me know.
> >
> > First note this point:
> >
> >
> > > 1.  The ancient Hebrew Text finalized by the members of the Great
> Assembly
> > > under Ezra, did in fact become translated into the Greek text known as
> the
> > > LXX.  This translation began with the Pentateuch and later continued
> with
> > > the other different Hebrew books as they became validated by the Hebrews
> in
> > > and around Jerusalem and then sent to Alexandria.  The complete LXX does
> > > seem to have existed by about the year 135 B C.
> >
> > The Ancient Hebrew Canon and its canonization by the members of the Great
> Assembly or
> > Synagogue may be a good starting place.  I assumed that those on the
> B-Hebrew list
> > fellowship were in agreement with me on this point. Please do forgive my
> assumption. I
> > will try to give more evidence on this point.  Let me know if you want me
> to scan in
> > from The Jewish Encyclopedia.  Debtor, Ron.
> >
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