Debtor (Ron) on Old Testamet Revisions

Roger L.. Kimmel rlkimmel at
Mon Nov 1 08:37:57 EST 1999

To Debtor:

"The Jewish Encyclopedia", pub. 1905 is hardly a standard Jewish text.  Not
only is it hopelessly out of date, it has never been used as a "standard"
reference in any  scholarly discussion that I have ever seen.  The same also
holds true for Louis Newman's "Influence on Christian Reform Movements",
1925.  I challenge you to show me in what way these two outdated, tertiary
and secondary sources represent "standard Jewish texts".  What are you
talking about?

These two texts no more represent a consensus of Jewish thinking than
articles quoted in "The Encyclopedia Britannica" represent  a standard of
"English Language" thinking.  The texts represent the editor's and author's
points of view respectively, but are not "standard Jewish texts".  I would
further contend that there are no standard Jewish or standard Christian
texts in the sense you use. These polarizations are not useful in a
scholarly discussion.

I see that the thread has changed names.  It used to be "Jewish Revisionism
and Attempted Corruptions".  You have now toned down your rhetoric to
"Debtor (Ron) on Old Testame(n)t Revisions". Surely this is a beginning,
however, your relentless insistence on Jewish  corruption and revisionism
against a standard of Christian purity smacks of Jew baiting and
anti-Semitism.  I am sure that is not your intention, being the honorable
and gentle individual you seem.

I hope that you find up to date references  when attempting to further this
discussion. I am sure that others on this list, far more learned than
myself, can assist you to this end.

Roger L. Kimmel, M.D.

----- Original Message -----
From: shella <shella at>
To: Biblical Hebrew <b-hebrew at>
Sent: Monday, November 01, 1999 7:41 AM
Subject: Debtor (Ron) on Old Testamet Revisions

> Dear Brothers and Sisters and friends, let me note that there seems to be
> questions around the Great Assembly and its Canonization of the original
Hebrew Old
> Testament Text.  There are related questions also about the Hebrew's first
> of this Text into other languages in general and the Greek in particular.
> it may be best for me to slow down and deal wit these two points in
greater details.
> The majority of my quotations will come from The Jewish Encyclopedia, a
multi volume
> set original gathered under Isidore Singer's Managing editorship and
published near
> 1905 by Funk and Wagnalls.  This entire set has been published later,
sometime near
> the 1960s I believe by KTAV publishing House, Inc.  This set and also
Louis Israel
> Newman's Jewish INfluence on Christian Reform Movements, published in New
York by
> Columbia University Press, 1925, are both standard Jewish works.  There
are two
> Christian works which I feel are worthy of being considered,  Thomas H.
Horne's An
> INtroduction of the Critical Study and Knowledge of the Holy Scriptures,
in several
> volumes, my edition is from the 1839 edition.  Baker Book House
republished it in
> 1970.  Also the Jewish Encyclopedia quotes from Henry Barclay Swete's An
> to The Old Testament in Greek, published near 1900s.  My copy is from the
> edition of 1989.
> Therefore, there are two Hebrew Jewish and two Christian testimonies as to
> matters which I shall use.
> Let me ask this, would it be better for me to scan these articles from The
> Encyclopedia and these other works?  It will take me more time, but I will
be happy to
> do this if many of you feel this will be better.  Please let me know.
> First note this point:
> > 1.  The ancient Hebrew Text finalized by the members of the Great
> > under Ezra, did in fact become translated into the Greek text known as
> > LXX.  This translation began with the Pentateuch and later continued
> > the other different Hebrew books as they became validated by the Hebrews
> > and around Jerusalem and then sent to Alexandria.  The complete LXX does
> > seem to have existed by about the year 135 B C.
> The Ancient Hebrew Canon and its canonization by the members of the Great
Assembly or
> Synagogue may be a good starting place.  I assumed that those on the
B-Hebrew list
> fellowship were in agreement with me on this point. Please do forgive my
assumption. I
> will try to give more evidence on this point.  Let me know if you want me
to scan in
> from The Jewish Encyclopedia.  Debtor, Ron.

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