Peter and the fixation with gematria

peter_kirk at peter_kirk at
Sat Jun 26 12:48:57 EDT 1999

Dear Ian,

I will download the book of Enoch and skim through it. Yes, I'm sure 
you're right that it is important, though I am not sure about the 

The dates with no month given add nothing to the argument, i.e. 
subtract nothing from the probability, as there is way that such a 
date could be shown to fall on a sabbath.

The probability that at least 6 out of 11 random dates falls on the 
same day of the week is not hard to calculate, but I don't know the 
exact formula. I doubt if it will show strong statistical 
significance. Do you actually know enough statistics to say "The 
evidence is quite clear that there is nothing random", or are you 
making assumptions?

Please don't assume I rely on western media for news about Serbia; I 
don't. It is clear from newspapers published in Russia that the 
Russians think that the Serbs are relying on them. Maybe Milosevic 
actually has more sense.

Peter Kirk

______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: Peter and the fixation with gematria
Author:  mc2499 at at internet
Date:    25/06/1999 17:13

Dear Peter,


It is an interesting maintenance of the parallels here that also carries 
your polemic along. Enoch is an important book in the history of the second 
temple. It is only to your detriment that you have not read it. I have a 
copy on my website. You can find it at:

Let there be no excuses! Enoch is also important for the understanding of 
Noah. It contains a crypto-history of the Hebrews from Adam through to 
Judas Maccabaeus, provides background to the development of thought on 
angels and demons, is taken as scripture by the letter of Jude, and 
provides us with a look at Jewish cosmology.


>I wrote:
>>In that case, could it not be chance also that none of them took 
>place >on the Sabbath?
>and you answered: "Try and calculate it." 
>OK, I now have the data I need. If the date of each vision is random, 
>there is a 6/7 chance that it did not take place on the Sabbath. You 
>quoted 11 fully defined dates. (6/7)^11 = 0.1834785562297.

While we are manipulating the information, you may choose to ignore the 
defective dates where the month is omitted, but you have no reason to, as 
the calendar is quite specific and for the two examples you omit, they 
could only fall on a Wednesday, Friday or Sunday, ie no chance of a 
Sabbath, so they must be included in your calculations. We should have 
nearly two occurrences of a Sabbath at random, yet there is none. We should 
have nearly two examples of a Sunday, but there is in fact six with the 
possibility of another two. The fisrt day was obviously propitious.

>implies, I think, an 18% probability that none of these visions would 
>have taken place on the Sabbath if the dates were chosen at random. 
>That is far less than is needed for any sort of statistical certainty. 
>We do also have the possibility that the calendar was deliberately 
>fitted to Ezekiel's dates rather than vice versa.

I have seen you argue consistently for the thin end of a wedge. Wouldn't it 
be nice for once that you had a bit more support? The evidence is quite 
clear that there is nothing random, given the fact that neither Sabbath nor 
Monday is mentioned along with the overabundant presence of Sundays.

>So, I'm sorry, I come back to my former tentative conclusion. For you 
>have no evidence to support your argument that Ezekiel was written 
>after the introduction of the solar calendar.

When one ignores most of the data one can conclude what they like. In my 
previous post I showed that there was a preference in the hexateuch for 
Fridays, but with your randomness thesis you can just explain the avoidance 
of Sabbaths (and Mondays) away.

Why not try a revised calculation that not only includes the data about 
Sabbaths but that of the day after the Sabbath as well, or would you like 
to attempt a random occurrence of Sundays, ie that not only was the day
three times the random average but it was expressly the day after the Sabbath?


I saw no real evidence that Serbia actually relied on Russia. That was I 
assume western propaganda: we get different news here. The Serbs did it a 
la Saddam Hussein, alone.


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