Proverbs 25 and "secret things".

Tsadowq at Tsadowq at
Wed Jun 16 08:30:10 EDT 1999

Previous Thread: Re: Secret Codes

Hello everyone,

Let me begin by saying that all of my comments may
certainly NOT be applied to the list as a whole.  If any
of my remarks feel as if they speak directly to any
member of this list as an individual, then let it be so.

I have often benefitted from being a part of this list-- learning
points of grammar and syntax from those of you who are 
greater studied than myself in the Hebrew language.  For
this, I am greatful....for the insights which I have gained.

This is certainly not to say that I would find myself 
in continual agreement with many of the comments
offered (on this list), by some of the "higher critics" 
of God's Own message to mankind.

Whether it be regarding Torah, Tanakh, or the contents of the *entire* 
Bible (embraced by mainstream Christianity), there have been times 
when I have been taken back at the tendency of some of this list's 
members-- toward sterilizing the Divine Authority of the written Word, 
in preference for leaning to their own understanding (PROV 3:5) of 
grammar and syntax.

While intentionally not being specific, I will say that in the past, I have 
witnessed valid questions posed...questions that were bold-- that if
spiritually considered, might have lead to greater understandings and
blessings from the Word...had they not been batted down with the
presumed authority that syntax and grammar like to dictate.

It is understood that, of course, this list studies language....but still....

It is telling, that those who mandate the throwing out of spiritual insights,
do so in favor of the rules of grammar and syntax which insure the
perpetual rule of their own authoritative commentaries.

To tell the truth, having witnessed this many times, I have often 
wondered if many on this list actually believe in God at all.


In areas of Hebrew grammar and syntax, it is true that I might have 
"my hat handed to me" by many members of this list.  Still, after 
being a member of this list for over two years--and having never 
spoken out once--I feel that this subject of "Secret Codes", is a 
case where I may actually be qualified to speak.

I would not even bother to post, had there not been the 
obvious lull in activity on this list in recent months.

Secondly, considering that this list, in the past--has not limited--
and has specifically tolerated theological discussions that were
not particularly pertaining to linguistic query, I do not expect my 
own comments on Secret Codes to be swatted down for not
being specifically targeted toward linguistical anomalies.

First, I would like to address the following comments,
made within the past few days, by different members 
of this group.

In a message dated 99-06-14 00:59:37 EDT, jkilmon writes:
<< one can take a copy of the Iliad and come up with the same 
patterns of "Bible Codes" that predict the brand of toothpaste 
Hitler used >>

  1) If this is true, please provide the evidence.

  2) If this is not true, but only meant as a jab at ELS codes-- 
      your point is well taken.

I actually own ELS software and have ran it many times.  

While I concur that ELS is not an actual code, I am forced to wonder 
if those within the ranks of this list-- who assume to have the authority 
to speak against the authenticity of the "codes", have actually done 
any serious investigation through *their own use* of ELS processing.  

Indeed-- all we have seen to date, are posts which point to a website
and say, "Here, go to this website, they will prove these so called
Bible Codes wrong". 

What I mean to say is, I don't care what kind of degree you have.

A mechanic may be qualified to fix a car's engine, but what 
business does he have-- pretending that he can diagnose 
the problem, without having actually ever taken the time 
to open and look under the hood for himself?

The "evidence" provided on the "Moby Dick--Assassination" website, 
if *actually* and *truly* investigated, is more of a farce than ELS is. 

Still, after studying the ELS codes for a couple of years, I would have 
to agree that Emile Borel's "100 monkey theory" would most definately 
apply to the majority of:
  1) ELS results I have personally gathered.

  2) What I have read on the subject.

There is one more post I would like to address before 
moving forward with comments of mine own.

In a message dated 99-06-14 08:28:10 EDT, jwest at Highland.Net writes:
<<it is pure rubbish- only believed by the unwashed herds 
of ignorant dullards now populating the planet.>>

This is a rather interesting method of instruction. I am forced to wonder
what College or University in particular it is, that instills in it's 
this type of condemnation toward the "less educated". While comments
like this are regrettable, they should at least remind us of the fate of the
haughty cedars of Lebanon. Timber!

With that said, there remains a "code", known as gematria,
which I have not seen this list address in the past (in any
real detail).  The subject is usually shot down fairly quick,
and that is about the end of it;  However, this code-- 
gematria, is the one that I have seen to be very real.

Arguments toward "Secret Codes" in the past, have included
questioning the Source text which is to be used as the data set.

If this thread lasts, maybe we can talk about the gematria
results for parts of sentences (choose your Source text).

For now, since we are aware of the Source text argument,
it would be beneficial to ask a simple question for starters:

What about gematria using single words?


Moses, in Numbers 21, lifts up a brass serpent upon a "pole".

All who looked upon the serpent (NChSh), lived.

Many Christians have postulated, that this event was a foreshadowing
of Jesus Christ, being lifted up upon a "pole"; that all who look upon
Him shall not perish, but in fact [even] have eternal life.

Jesus himself said the following:

"And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so 
must the Son of man be lifted up: That whosoever believeth in 
him should not perish, but have eternal life.    John 3:14-15

Now, we should all be aware of the prophecy in Daniel 9,
and how Daniel's prophetic "weeks" actually line up to 
directly apply to Jesus' "Hosanna entry" into Jerusalem.

In Daniel, this prophetic utterance is given, which pertains to 
the Messiah.  If we add up the individual values of the Hebrew
letters which spell the word, we find the numerical value of the 
word "Messiah", will total 358.

Why is this important?

It is important, because when we add up the numerical value
of Moses' serpent, which was lifted up onto a pole, (NChSh), 
we find that it too has a numerical value of 358, 

serpent = 358
Messiah = 358

Indeed!  Israel's Messiah (358) would be lifted up onto a pole, 
just as it was foreshadowed by the brass serpent (358) which
was lifted up onto a pole, thousands of years earlier by Moses.

And all who look to the Messiah, shall live.

Gematria, when properly used, can never be used to predict events 
which are not manifestly stated or prophetically foreshadowed in
the written Word.  

It is a true code, a thing concealed which glorifies God.

Be it known, that this example herein (serpent/358--Messiah/358),
is but a small tid-bit of gematria that I have at my disposal; consider
the fact that all of the Messianic prophecies share this mathematical
phenomena, and all of them point to Jesus Christ.

Those who would cast stones of contention should
be forewarned that I am more than capable of proving
gematria to be a valid code within the *entire* Bible.

But, judging from the cynical and overbiting contention 
already voiced toward "Secret Codes" from within this 
list's constituency, what truly remains to be decided 
at my own discretion through prayerful consideration-- 
is whether or not defending gematria, would be casting 
very precious pearls to (over educated?) swine.

  2) It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but
      the honour of kings is to search out a matter.

Sometimes, smart men are not as smart as they think they are.

In Hope and Love.
Keep the Faith, brethren.

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