peter_kirk at peter_kirk at
Tue Dec 21 00:43:40 EST 1999

I'll try some quick comments, see below.

Peter Kirk

______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: Debates
Author:  <gs02wmr at panther.Gsu.EDU> at Internet
Date:    20/12/1999 13:05


Well, I have my old line of reasoning that I would cut-and-paste from my 
old messages in order to answer and rebut this guy's case, but I was 
hoping someone with a more "formal" and Scholarly grammar background could 
answer the e-mail so I could include that as well. I certaintly don't 
agree with him, because it sounds like a specious conjunction of words 
that follows no grammar rules of Biblical Hebrew but rather a "religious" 

Anyone care to rebut yet another mutilator of the Hebrew language? ;)


Wondell M. Rachman

On Mon, 20 Dec 1999 Numberup at wrote:

> Please, give us your thoughts on this.  I am not sure I am confortable with th
> interpretation of someone who gets his grammar from the personal "unction of t
he Ruach
> HaQodesh."
> Todah rabbah,
> Solomon Landers
> Memra Institute for Biblical Research 
> gs02wmr at panther.Gsu.EDU wrote:
> > Shalaom Alaikh...
> >
> > I've recently been involved in a little tit-for-tat with a member of a 
> > message board who has drawn the following conclusions on the
> > Tetragrammaton. I was going to rebut them, but wondered if anyone on this 
> > list would like to address them? You can e-mail me privately if you like, 
> > adding your thoughts on how clear or unclear this guy sounds. Shalom.
> > -------------
> >
> > . now the 2nd question "why IHVH and not YHWH" well because I have come to 
> > discover under the unction of the Ruach HaQodesh that the name IHVH has
> > it's roots in the word Hayah which means to be or to exist (i could give 
> > yoo                more defis but I will stick with those 2) BUT if you 
> > look at the word IHVH and a simple comprehension of hebrew
> > you would see the word HaVaH within IHVH, the word HaVaH has the same 
> > meaning as Hayah which is the ROOT
> > of the word IHVH.

PK: Thus far this guy seems to be talking some sense. Maybe even the 
Ruach HaQodesh is guiding him.

 And knowing hebraic grammer I understand that the Yud > > (letter I or Y) 
denotes masculinity to
> > the word HVH, thereby giving it personability and gender. so instead of 
> > YahWeh I would prefer Yahawah to that,
> > but it's IHaVaH the I is an EE or long e and is pronounced (at this time) 
> > as EEHah Vah.

PK: But when he comes to lean on his own understanding of Hebrew 
grammar, it immediately fails him. (Proverbs 3:5-6!) The initial Y has 
little to do with masculinity in this case, and it would not have been 
pronounced EE.

 giving you more  information the REAL name of Jesus was
> > Eeshu in his mother tongue of aramaic. now we all know that is name
> > incorporates the name of God and means God saves or God is salvation, how 
> > do you derive at that when the ONLY portion of his name that could have
> > anything to do with God is EE. Which is the preportion of EEHaVaH,
> > actually in long form his name is Eehushu' (or as I spell it Ihushua [the 
> > a is a gutteral sound] now the preportion that is God's name is Eehu, or
> > IHu or IHV Ihav with the ah dropped,

PK: I have always thought that Jesus' real name was more like Yeshua. 
Possibly it would have been pronounced more like Eeshu in Aramaic of 
that time and place, I don't know. And was it his mother tongue? 
Another debatable point. But Yeshua is a contraction of the longer 
Yehoshua (the English Joshua), which is made up of the name YHWH 
(without the final H which is anyway silent) and SHUA from the root 
YSh` meaning "salvation". Note that the same high priest (son of 
Jehozadak) is referred to as Yehoshua in Haggai and Zechariah and as 
Yeshua in Ezra and Nehemiah, and that Yehoshua (Joshua) son of Nun is 
called Yeshua in Nehemiah 8:17. Also the two names have the same Greek 
form Iesous which is also used in the New Testament for Jesus of 
Nazareth and others.

 Then again I have heard taht the true > > name of God is AhVah.
> >

PK: Who told him this? The Ruach HaQodesh? I doubt it.

Peter Kirk

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