Gen 3:15 (snakes)

Noel O'Riordan nor at
Wed Dec 1 16:16:20 EST 1999

In response to John

> I think you're confusing two issues.  One issue is whether
> the Lord's threat "On the day you eat of it you shall surely
> die" came true.  But the serpent did not say "you won't die
> on the day you eat of it" but rather "you surely won't die"
> or (as some might argue), "you won't surely die."  Either is
> a lie from the father of lies, imitated by his "offspring"

In order for this to be correct then you must assume, for no where is it
stated, that Adam and Eve where going to live for ever.

> The serpent took premeditated, calculated action which any
> rational being would know that if successful would bring
> about the death of Adam and Eve, and succeeded.
> I think that would classify him as a murderer by any
> reasonable definition.

God         'On that day you will surely die'
Serpent   'You will not die'
They did not die on that day.  To say that the serpent lied because they
eventually died is, and I repeat myself, to assume that they were going to
live for ever

> Adam and Eve were not cursed, but "cursed are you" spoken to
> the serpent is repeated verbatim to Cain in the next
> chapter.

It sure sounds like they were cursed to me, how else would you describe it?

> Sorry but both Adam and Eve did confess and answered the
> Lord's questions truthfully (the blameshifting I agree is
> blameworthy but the contrast with Cain is nevertheless quite
> clear):
> To Adam "Where are you?" Answer (truthfully) "I heard the
> sound of you and I was afraid and hid."
> To Cain "Where is Abel your brother?"  Answer (lying) "I
> don't know."
> To Adam "Did you eat..."  Answer "... I ate."
> To Eve "What is this you have done?" Answer "... I ate."
> To Cain "What is this you have done? ..." Answer "My
> punishment is too great to bear."  Quite different, don't
> you agree?

I agree there is a difference in the words but there is also a difference in
the crime and the circumstances.   Adam and Eve transgressed Gods
commandment, but they did not die, as they may reasonably have expected to,
after all they were told that if they ate the fruit they would die.
(Crucially we do not know if Adam and Eve expected that God would be the
arbiter of their death.)  Adams response does not portray repentance or even
acknowledgement that he sinned, he merely acknowledged that he ate, the
same is true of Eve.  As for the serpent, he may have confessed ( that is of
course assuming that he had a crime to confess to.), we don't know because
are not told, again in connecting the serpent with Cain you assume that the
serpent lied.   Cain's response is however more realistic, initially he lied
for he knew that he had committed a grievous sin.  When he says that his
punishment is to great to bear, he appears to show more regret at what he
did than Adam and Eve.  If you interpret the Paradise narrative as being the
loss of innocence and the introduction of sin into the world then the
responses of the two parties can be seen in a different light.  Adam and Eve
introduced sin into the world, assuming that sin did not exist before then
how did they know that what they where doing was wrong?  This may explain
there noticeable lack of repentance, however Cain knew he had sinned, and
this can explain his response.

I hope we wont be given out to for not including very much Biblical Hebrew
in our posts:-)

Noel O Riordan

> Regards,
> John Ronning
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