The "times" of Isaiah

peter_kirk at peter_kirk at
Fri Aug 20 22:04:44 EDT 1999

Dear Rolf,

I don't have time to look at all of this now. But let's look at your 
supposedly obvious examples that the YIQTOL of )MR has future meaning. 
For a start, by your own methodology they do not, they merely have a 
future pragmatic context. There is in fact nothing to show that there 
is any time-related component to their meaning. Some of them seem to 
be primarily modal rather than future anyway.

But how can you possibly make the logical jump from "YIQTOL of )MR has 
future meaning" to "QATAL of )MR does not have future meaning"? This 
seems to me totally logically fallacious, at the very most a rather 
weak possibility which you have elsewhere taken as a major support for 
your theory. Or have I missed something?

Peter Kirk

______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________
Subject: Re: The "times" of Isaiah
Author:  furuli at at internet
Date:    19/08/1999 10:25


I will use CH )MR as an example. I looked at all the 499 examples of this 
expression in the Bible and found that all YIQTOLs of )MR (except three in 
conditional clauses,1 Sam 14:9;20:22; 2 Sam 15:26) have future meaning. How 
did I reach that conclusion? Simply by taking a quick look at the context; 
you need no model for that. Just look at them yourself: Gen 32:5;50:17, Ex 
3:14;19:3; 20:22; 1 Sam 11;9; 18:25;20:7; 2 Sam 7:8;11:25;19:10; Is 37:10; 
Jer 21:3; 23:35,37; 2 chr 10:10. In addition to these, the following 
examples have a YIQTOL and a QATAL of )MR in the same verse, the YIQTOLs 
having future meaning: GEN 32:5; 2 SAM 7:8:19:6; 2 Kings 22:18; Is 37:6; 
27:4; Jer 37:7;45:4; Ezek 33:27. 1 Chr 17:7; 2 Chr 34:26.

The information above suggests that the QATAL of )MR does not have future 
meaning, and that in exclamations with KH it was not natural to use the 
YIQTOL form with present meaning (though this is done in other contexts). 
The QATAL  form of )MR, therefore, will either have a RT before C (past 
meaning), or a RT coinciding with C (perfect, or present). But how can we 


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