[B-Greek] 1Thesalonians5:23

Vasileios Tsialas tsialas78 at hotmail.com
Mon Jun 6 04:28:22 EDT 2011


Correction to my last message: The correct verse is 2The 2:8.
 
Vasileios Tsialas
 
> From: tsialas78 at hotmail.com
> To: p1234567891 at gmail.com; b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2011 11:21:02 +0300
> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] 1Thesalonians5:23
> 
> 
> My personal opinion is that, since in 1 Timothy 6:14 speaks about the "manifestation" of παρουσία, it is better not to limit παρουσία to the act of an arrival. How can an arrival be manifested? I feel that it is better to say that a "presence" can be manifested; I feel that the wording of the text gives me the impression of an arrival that has already taken place but was "hidden" or "unnoticed" until the time of manifestation.
> 
> Vasileios Tsialas
> 
> Athens, Greece
> 
> 
> > Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2011 13:37:41 +0800
> > From: p1234567891 at gmail.com
> > To: cwconrad2 at mac.com; b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> > Subject: Re: [B-Greek] 1Thesalonians5:23
> > 
> > Dear Carl,
> > 
> > 
> > Thanks a lot! I have two more questions though:
> > 
> > On 3 June 2011 18:58, Carl Conrad <cwconrad2 at mac.com> wrote:
> > 
> > >
> > > On Jun 3, 2011, at 5:43 AM, =) <p1234567891 at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > [1 Thes 5:23]
> > > > αυτος δε ο θεος της ειρηνης αγιασαι υμας ολοτελεις και ολοκληρον υμων
> > > > τοπνευμακαιηψυχηκαιτοσωμααμεμπτως
> > > > εν τη παρουσια του κυριου ημων ιησου χριστου τηρηθειη
> > > > AUTOS DE O QEOS THS EIRHNHS AGIASAI UMAS OLOTELEIS KAI OLOKLHRON UMWN TO
> > > > PNEUMA KAI H YUCH KAI TO SWMA AMEMPTWS EN TH PAROUSIA TOU KURIOU HMWN
> > > IHSOU
> > > > CRISTOU THRHQEIH
> > > > moreover may the God of the peace himself sanctify you completely. and
> > > may
> > > > your entire spirit and [your] [entire] soul and [your] [entire] body be
> > > kept
> > > > faultless in the presence of our lord, Jesus Christ.
> > > >
> > > > I understood "EN TH PAROUSIA" to mean "in the presence", because although
> > > I
> > > > know that it can imply "arrival" in some instances, it seems to have a
> > > main
> > > > connotation of "presence" rather than "coming" (just as when we say "he
> > > is
> > > > finally present" to mean "he has arrived"). Phlp 2:12 has "EN TH PAROUSIA
> > > > MOU ... EN TH APOUSIA MOU" which means "in my presence ... in my
> > > absence". Is
> > > > there then reason to take this phrase to mean specifically "in the
> > > arrival"?
> > > > Does "EN TH PAROUSIA TOU KURIOU HMWN IHSOU CRISTOU" convey more of "in
> > > the
> > > > presence of our lord Jesus Christ", whether it is the result of "his
> > > > coming"?
> > >
> > > Yes, in Phil 2:12 the sense of παρουσία PAROUSIA clearly is "presence,"
> > > but this appears to be the only instance among the 24 in the GNT of the
> > > word where it does in fact mean "being present" rather than "arrival."
> > >
> > 
> > What about:
> > [2 Thes 1:8]
> > και τοτε αποκαλυφθησεται ο ανομος ον ο κυριος αναλωσει τω πνευματι
> > τουστοματοςαυτουκαικαταργησειτηεπιφανειατηςπαρουσιαςαυτου
> > KAI TOTE APOKALUYQHSETAI O ANOMOS ON O KURIOS ANALWSEI TW PNEUMATI TOU
> > STOMATOS AUTOU KAI KATARGHSEI TH EPIFANEIA THS PAROUSIAS AUTOU
> > and then the lawless [one] will be revealed, whom the lord will consume [by]
> > the spirit of his mouth and will put away [by] the manifestation of his
> > presence
> > 
> > I do think it means that it is by his presence that the lord will put away
> > the lawless one, otherwise if "PAROUSIAS" here means "arrival", what does it
> > mean for "his arrival to put away"?
> > 
> > Are there instances of "PAROUSIA" in early Christian writings which refer
> > clearly to the act of coming rather than the result of coming (arrival or
> > presence)? If not, am I correct to say that "PAROUSIA" does not refer to the
> > act or process of coming, unlike "ELQEIN" (LXX Mal 4:5), although it may
> > refer to the resulting arrival and presence (as in 1 Thes 2-5)?
> > 
> > 
> > Thanks,
> > 
> > David Lim
> > ---
> > B-Greek home page: http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek
> > B-Greek mailing list
> > B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> > http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-greek
> 
> ---
> B-Greek home page: http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek
> B-Greek mailing list
> B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-greek
 		 	   		  


More information about the B-Greek mailing list