[B-Greek] 1Thesalonians5:23

Vasileios Tsialas tsialas78 at hotmail.com
Mon Jun 6 04:21:02 EDT 2011


My personal opinion is that, since in 1 Timothy 6:14 speaks about the "manifestation" of παρουσία, it is better not to limit παρουσία to the act of an arrival. How can an arrival be manifested? I feel that it is better to say that a "presence" can be manifested; I feel that the wording of the text gives me the impression of an arrival that has already taken place but was "hidden" or "unnoticed" until the time of manifestation.
 
Vasileios Tsialas
 
Athens, Greece

 
> Date: Mon, 6 Jun 2011 13:37:41 +0800
> From: p1234567891 at gmail.com
> To: cwconrad2 at mac.com; b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] 1Thesalonians5:23
> 
> Dear Carl,
> 
> 
> Thanks a lot! I have two more questions though:
> 
> On 3 June 2011 18:58, Carl Conrad <cwconrad2 at mac.com> wrote:
> 
> >
> > On Jun 3, 2011, at 5:43 AM, =) <p1234567891 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > [1 Thes 5:23]
> > > αυτος δε ο θεος της ειρηνης αγιασαι υμας ολοτελεις και ολοκληρον υμων
> > > τοπνευμακαιηψυχηκαιτοσωμααμεμπτως
> > > εν τη παρουσια του κυριου ημων ιησου χριστου τηρηθειη
> > > AUTOS DE O QEOS THS EIRHNHS AGIASAI UMAS OLOTELEIS KAI OLOKLHRON UMWN TO
> > > PNEUMA KAI H YUCH KAI TO SWMA AMEMPTWS EN TH PAROUSIA TOU KURIOU HMWN
> > IHSOU
> > > CRISTOU THRHQEIH
> > > moreover may the God of the peace himself sanctify you completely. and
> > may
> > > your entire spirit and [your] [entire] soul and [your] [entire] body be
> > kept
> > > faultless in the presence of our lord, Jesus Christ.
> > >
> > > I understood "EN TH PAROUSIA" to mean "in the presence", because although
> > I
> > > know that it can imply "arrival" in some instances, it seems to have a
> > main
> > > connotation of "presence" rather than "coming" (just as when we say "he
> > is
> > > finally present" to mean "he has arrived"). Phlp 2:12 has "EN TH PAROUSIA
> > > MOU ... EN TH APOUSIA MOU" which means "in my presence ... in my
> > absence". Is
> > > there then reason to take this phrase to mean specifically "in the
> > arrival"?
> > > Does "EN TH PAROUSIA TOU KURIOU HMWN IHSOU CRISTOU" convey more of "in
> > the
> > > presence of our lord Jesus Christ", whether it is the result of "his
> > > coming"?
> >
> > Yes, in Phil 2:12 the sense of παρουσία PAROUSIA clearly is "presence,"
> > but this appears to be the only instance among the 24 in the GNT of the
> > word where it does in fact mean "being present" rather than "arrival."
> >
> 
> What about:
> [2 Thes 1:8]
> και τοτε αποκαλυφθησεται ο ανομος ον ο κυριος αναλωσει τω πνευματι
> τουστοματοςαυτουκαικαταργησειτηεπιφανειατηςπαρουσιαςαυτου
> KAI TOTE APOKALUYQHSETAI O ANOMOS ON O KURIOS ANALWSEI TW PNEUMATI TOU
> STOMATOS AUTOU KAI KATARGHSEI TH EPIFANEIA THS PAROUSIAS AUTOU
> and then the lawless [one] will be revealed, whom the lord will consume [by]
> the spirit of his mouth and will put away [by] the manifestation of his
> presence
> 
> I do think it means that it is by his presence that the lord will put away
> the lawless one, otherwise if "PAROUSIAS" here means "arrival", what does it
> mean for "his arrival to put away"?
> 
> Are there instances of "PAROUSIA" in early Christian writings which refer
> clearly to the act of coming rather than the result of coming (arrival or
> presence)? If not, am I correct to say that "PAROUSIA" does not refer to the
> act or process of coming, unlike "ELQEIN" (LXX Mal 4:5), although it may
> refer to the resulting arrival and presence (as in 1 Thes 2-5)?
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> David Lim
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