[B-Greek] 1Thesalonians5:23

=) p1234567891 at gmail.com
Fri Jun 3 05:43:51 EDT 2011


Dear all,


Can I also ask about the last part of
[1 Thes 5:23]
αυτος δε ο θεος της ειρηνης αγιασαι υμας ολοτελεις και ολοκληρον υμων
τοπνευμακαιηψυχηκαιτοσωμααμεμπτως
εν τη παρουσια του κυριου ημων ιησου χριστου τηρηθειη
AUTOS DE O QEOS THS EIRHNHS AGIASAI UMAS OLOTELEIS KAI OLOKLYRON UMWN TO
PNEUMA KAI H YUCH KAI TO SWMA AMEMPTWS EN TH PAROUSIA TOU KURIOU HMWN IHSOU
CRISTOU THRHQEIH
moreover may the God of the peace himself sanctify you completely. and may
your entire spirit and [your] [entire] soul and [your] [entire] body be kept
faultless in the presence of our lord, Jesus Christ.

I understood "EN TH PAROUSIA" to mean "in the presence", because although I
know that it can imply "arrival" in some instances, it seems to have a main
connotation of "presence" rather than "coming" (just as when we say "he is
finally present" to mean "he has arrived"). Phlp 2:12 has "EN TH PAROUSIA
MOU ... EN TH APOUSIA MOU" which means "in my presence ... in my absence". Is
there then reason to take this phrase to mean specifically "in the arrival"?
Does "EN TH PAROUSIA TOU KURIOU HMWN IHSOU CRISTOU" convey more of "in the
presence of our lord Jesus Christ", whether it is the result of "his
coming"?


Thanks,

David Lim



On 2 June 2011 23:52, nebarry <nebarry at verizon.net> wrote:

>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <bgreek at global4.freeserve.co.uk>
> To: <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
> Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2011 6:56 AM
> Subject: [B-Greek] 1Thesalonians5:23
>
>
> > Author John Crowder has proposed a translation (or perhaps more a
> > translation/paraphrase) of 1Thess5:23 as follows:
> >
> > "And himself, the God of peace, is the one who sets all of you apart
> > completely.  Your whole spirit, soul and body is preserved blameless
> until
> > the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.  The one who calls you is faithful,
> > and he will preserve you"
> >
> > Do you think the Greek supports this translation?  It seems to hinge on
> > how one treats the aorist optative hAGIASAI (which from Wallace, I
> believe
> > is a voluntative optative - I'm an NT Greek beginner), but I am not sure
> > whether it can be pressed this far.  I'd appreciate any comments you may
> > have.
>
> Apparently the ability to speak in tounges does not translate to ability in
> Greek (pardon the pun).  The Greek does not support this "translation."  As
> pointed out, these are optatives, here expressing "wish," and the practical
> equivalent of imperatives (Jerome translates with a jussive subjunctive).
>
> N.E. Barry Hofstetter
> Classics and Bible @ TAA
> http://www.theamericanacademy.net
>
>
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> B-Greek home page: http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek
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