[B-Greek] Heb 12:27 METAQESIS
George F Somsel
gfsomsel at yahoo.com
Wed Jul 28 22:27:13 EDT 2010
I have a good deal of respect for Ann's judgment, but I think she is in error
here. It does not seem to comport with the subsequent portion of the verse
which she translates as "so that the things which cannot be rocked will remain"
thus implying that the things which can be "rocked" will by implication be said
to be removed when it uses the term μετάθεσιν METAQESIN. Westcott notes here
that one should compare 11.5 which reads
Πίστει Ἑνὼχ μετετέθη τοῦ μὴ ἰδεῖν θάνατον, καὶ οὐχ ηὑρίσκετο διότι μετέθηκεν
αὐτὸν ὁ θεός. πρὸ γὰρ τῆς μεταθέσεως μεμαρτύρηται εὐαρεστηκέναι τῷ θεῷ·
PISTEI ENWX METETEQH TOU MH IDEIN QANATON, KAI OUX hHURISKETO DIOTI METEQHKEN
AUTON hO QEOS. PRO GAR THS METAQESEWS MEMARTURHTAI hEURESTHKENAI TWi QEWi.
… search for truth, hear truth,
learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth,
defend the truth till death.
- Jan Hus
From: Carl Conrad <cwconrad2 at mac.com>
To: Oun Kwon <kwonbbl at gmail.com>
Cc: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
Sent: Wed, July 28, 2010 4:04:26 PM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Heb 12:27 METAQESIS
On Jul 28, 2010, at 6:10 PM, Oun Kwon wrote:
> On Tue, Jul 27, 2010 at 4:44 AM, Carl Conrad <cwconrad2 at mac.com> wrote:
>> On Jul 26, 2010, at 11:11 PM, Oun Kwon wrote:
>>> Heb 12:27
>> More accurately:
>> Heb 12:27 TO DE ETI hAPAX DHLOI [THN] TWN SALEUOMENWN
>> METAQESIN hWS PEPOIHMENWN, hINA MEINHi TA MH SALEUOMENA.
>>> Now my question on METAQESIS
>>> A brief quotation from BDAG on METAQESIS – p. 639
>>> (1) removal to another place Heb 11:5
>>> (2) change, transformation Heb 7:12; 12:27
>>> Why have most translations chosen 'removal' on this text? Is it a
>>> matter of exegesis?
>> I think the answer lies in the self-evident contrast between what has
>> happened to TA SALEUOMENA, i.e., METAQESIN, and the
>> expected result of the one last shaking of the earth: the abiding/
>> ongoing presence (MEINHi) of TA MH SALEUOMENA.
>> What is not shaken abides, what is shaken is removed.
>> Carl W. Conrad
> (Sorry for a typo in copying the transliterated text.)
> As I am down with you, my question needs to be flipped around as a
> lexicographical question:
> Why does BDAG cite this Heb 12:27 as an example of (2)?
> Source New Testament by Ann Nyland renders it as 'transference', which
> itself is not understandable. She puts a footnote there, saying <not
I can't speak for Ann Nyland; at one point she was a list-member and may still
perhaps she'll respond. Nor can I explain BDAG's listing of this under the
sense. METAQESIS should mean most fundamentallly "transposition" or
of elements into a new order -- or perhaps, in this instance, a restoration to
of things as created, if that's the sense of hWS PEPOIHMENWN.
Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
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