[B-Greek] John 17:24 hO and KAKEINOI

Lee Moses john_lee_moses at yahoo.com
Sun Jul 18 17:56:36 EDT 2010


Marilyn,

Greetings.  A.T. Robertson provides a pertinent discussion on relative pronouns in his monstrous grammar (pp. 710ff).  

The normal thing is for the relative to agree with the antecedent in gender. . . . In a passage like 1 Cor. 15:10, EIMI hO EIMI, there is no mistake. See hOS above in verse 9. It is not 'who I am,' but 'what I am,' not exactly OIOS either, but a more abstract idea than that. Cf. hO in Jo. 4:22, used twice for the object of worship, God. So in 1 Jo. 1:1 observe hO HN -- hO AKHKOAMEN, hO hEWRAKAMEN (cf. verse 3) for Jesus. One may recall here that the collective abstract neuter, PAN hO (Jo. 6:37, 39; 17:2), is used for the disciples. Cf. hO KAKEINOI (Jo. 17:24).

I hope this helps.

Yours in service to Christ,
Lee Moses


Message: 1
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 2010 10:21:20 -0500
From: Marilyn Phemister <windmill65 at yahoo.com>
To: B-Greek <B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Subject: [B-Greek] John 17:24 hO and KAKEINOI
Message-ID: <4C431BF0.6060800 at yahoo.com>
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Scholars:

Here I am with another question.

In John 17:24 we have:

?????, ? ??????? ???, ???? ??? ???? ???? ??? ???????? ???? ???? ????,
PATER, hO DEDWKAS MOI, QELW hINA hOPOU EIMI EGW KAKEINOI WSIN MET EMOU,

Why does John use a neuter singular pronoun hO and then refer back to it 
with a masculine plural demonstrative KAKEIVOI?  Shouldn't the two agree 
in gender and number?  Is there a rule here I am missing?  Is it 
possible that ? hO represented a collective neuter noun such as ???????? 
POMNION, and KAKEINOI the members of that group? 

Thank you,

Marilyn Phemister






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