[B-Greek] John 8:17 DE

Mark Lightman lightmanmark at yahoo.com
Sun Jul 11 10:28:44 EDT 2010


Oun wrote:

<It seems to me that the English injection 'why' fits very well here.

John  8:17
Why, even in the very Law you are holding
it is written  there that the testimony of two men is valid.>

Hi, Oun,

I agree.  This captures the sense very well.

I happened upon a parallel while reading the Wisdom of Solomon this weekend.

11:20  Και χωρις δε τουτων, ενι πνευματι πεσειν εδυναντο
KAI CWRIS DE TOUTWN, ENI PNEUMATI PESEIN EDUNANTO

(and even without these things (the beasts God could have sent against
the Egyptians) they could have fallen by just one wind-blast from God)

In both cases the DE is put in the middle of the prepositional phrase, but in
the passage from John that phrase is bigger and so the DE goes back further.

Brenton picks up the force of the DE in the Wisdom passage with "Yea."
NAB picks up the force just as well by not translating it. 

I guess what I am really saying is that these Greek connectives are right-brain 
sorts of things. 


 Mark L



FWSFOROS MARKOS




________________________________
From: Oun Kwon <kwonbbl at gmail.com>
To: Iver Larsen <iver_larsen at sil.org>
Cc: B-Greek <B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Sat, July 10, 2010 10:24:14 PM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] John 8:17 DE

On Fri, Jul 9, 2010 at 2:06 PM, Iver Larsen <iver_larsen at sil.org> wrote:
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carl Conrad" <cwconrad2 at mac.com>
> To: "Marilyn Phemister" <windmill65 at yahoo.com>
> Cc: "B-Greek" <B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
> Sent: 8. juli 2010 01:40
> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] John 8:17 DE
>
>
>>
>> On Jul 7, 2010, at 5:19 PM, Marilyn Phemister wrote:
>>
>>> **Esteemed Scholars:
>>>
>>> I am puzzled about DE in John 8:17.  It seems to me that the verse would
>>> be
>>> translated the same with or without it. I'm afraid this is a silly
>>> question,
>>> but can someone tell me why DE is there? Is it translated AND or But with
>>> KAI
>>> being translated as ALSO?  That would make sense to me, but I still
>>> wonder
>>> why it is needed.

<clipped>

> For translation into English "and" would be the closest here, since it
> introduces an additional, but different, argument.
>
> Iver Larsen

It seems to me that the English injection 'why' fits very well here.

John 8:17
Why, even in the very Law you are holding
it is written there that the testimony of two men is valid.

Oun Kwon.
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