[B-Greek] 2 Thess 2:15

Ehrman, Bart D behrman at email.unc.edu
Thu Dec 30 13:29:22 EST 2010


    Good point about the elision.  :-)  (I bet he didn't copy and paste as I did, either!)

-- BDE

Bart D. Ehrman
James A. Gray Professor
Department of Religious Studies
University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill

http://www.bartdehrman.com






-----Original Message-----
From: Carl Conrad [mailto:cwconrad2 at mac.com] 
Sent: Thursday, December 30, 2010 1:27 PM
To: Mark Lightman
Cc: George F Somsel; Ehrman, Bart D; b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] 2 Thess 2:15


On Dec 30, 2010, at 1:10 PM, Mark Lightman wrote:

> On the other hand, it is alleged

by whom? "It is alleged" has the air of a "divine passive." Was that the intent?

Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)

> that in Koine a noun in a prepositional phrase 
> may omit the article even if a definite reference is intended.   εἴτε δι' τῆς 
> ἐπιστολὴς ἡμῶν may have sounded funny with the extra syllable, but there is a 
> chance that that is what Paul meant.

It really would be funny if Paul had written δι’ τῆς ἐπιστολῆς ἡμῶν [DI' THS
EPISTOLHS hHMWN] -- how frequently is an alpha elided before a tau?

> ________________________________
> From: George F Somsel <gfsomsel at yahoo.com>
> To: "Ehrman, Bart D" <behrman at email.unc.edu>; "b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org" 
> <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
> Sent: Thu, December 30, 2010 10:32:08 AM
> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] 2 Thess 2:15
> 
> Ἄρα οὖν, ἀδελφοί, στήκετε καὶ κρατεῖτε τὰς παραδόσεις ἃς ἐδιδάχθητε εἴτε διὰ 
> λόγου εἴτε διʼ ἐπιστολῆς ἡμῶν.
> ARA OUN, ADELFOI, STHKETE KAI KRATEITE TAS PARADOSEIS hAS EDIDAXQHTE EITE DIA 
> LOGOU EITE DI' EPISTOLHS hHMWN.
> 
> 
> It is generally understood that mentioning an item with an article indicates 
> that the subject is known to the reader.  Whether one can therefore say that 
> when there is an absence of an article it indicates an item which is not known 
> to the reader might be a bit questionable.  In this case I would think that 
> while it does not point to any specific letter (despite the fact that this is 
> known as 2nd Thess), but rather it must be understood in the same way that DIA 
> LOGOU is to be understood.  It is not some specific statement to which reference 
> 
> is made but rather to whatever ORAL tradition he may have imparted.  So DI' 
> EPISTOLHS would reference any written communication.
> 
> george
> gfsomsel 
> ________________________________
> From: "Ehrman, Bart D" <behrman at email.unc.edu>
> To: "b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org" <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
> Sent: Thu, December 30, 2010 10:12:55 AM
> Subject: [B-Greek] 2 Thess 2:15
> 
>    In his commentary on 2 Thessalonians, W. Marxsen claims that since 2:15 εἴτε 
> 
> δι' ἐπιστολὴς ἡμῶν lacks an article (as in εἴτε δι' τῆς ἐπιστολὴς ἡμῶν) it does 
> not refer back to a specific letter (e.g., to 1 Thessalonians) but is meant in a 
> 
> general sense to refer to any ole letter that he may have written (or not).  If 
> he had wanted to refer to 1 Thessalonians in particular, he would have used the 
> article.  I’m interested in the grammatical question.  What do y’all think?
> 
> n  Bart Ehrman
> 
> Bart D. Ehrman
> 
> James A. Gray Professor
> 
> Department of Religious Studies
> 
> University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill
> http://www.bartdehrman.com 






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