[B-Greek] Romans 16:1

Terry Cook cookie99 at fuse.net
Wed Dec 22 08:23:16 EST 2010

I've posted 10-11 times over the past five years and nearly every time Carl has graciously responded in some way (thank you) but Carl makes me feel like a grade schooler again watching out for Mr King who roamed the halls looking for little boys misbehaving so he could paddle 'em! <smile> Maybe it's in part because Carl always cuts my name and the "sDg" off before responding.

OK, LSJ points out a few examples of a fem art with a masc noun. Was this usage only prior to the Koine era? Are there any examples of this construction in the NT or LXX? Was it "good" Greek or were writers being lazy or maybe even "ungrammatical?"

Terry Cook

From: cwconrad2 
Sent: Tuesday, December 21, 2010 7:20 PM
To: Terry Cook 
Cc: nikolaos kadamou ; Daniel Streett ; Biblical Greek Mailing List 
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Romans 16:1

On Dec 21, 2010, at 04:38 PM, Terry Cook <cookie99 at fuse.net> wrote:

  I've been waiting for further input but seeing none forthcoming let me prove 
  my lack of knowledge before the whole world- the example from LSJ, as far as 
  I can tell does not once use a fem article with a masc noun.
  It is my understanding that the article tells us what the gender of its noun 
  is. So, the article and its noun are ALWAYS the same gender.
  What don't I understand in this conversation?

What you're missing is that in the sections of LSJ cited below:

(a) that θήλεια θεός involves a feminine adjective applied to a noun θεός, proving that θεός may be understood as referring to a goddess;

(b) In τοῖς θεοῖς εὔχομαι πᾶσι καὶ πάσαις, that πάσαις is a modifier of τοῖς θεοῖς, which must therefore be understood as having common gender;

(c) ἁ Διὸς θεός: where ἁ is the feminine article, equivalent to Attic-Ionic ἡ

(d) ἡ νέρτερα θεός = Persephone, "the nether goddess"

The evidence cited in LSJ by Daniel Streett is altogether convincing that the noun θεός
was understood to have common gender and could be used of a goddess as well as of
a masculine god.

Carl W. ConradDepartment of Classics, Washington University (ret)


  From: "nikolaos kadamou" <ntgreekreader at gmail.com>
  Sent: Tuesday, December 14, 2010 9:05 PM
  To: "Daniel Streett" <danstreett at gmail.com>
  Cc: "Biblical Greek Mailing List" <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
  Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Fwd: Romans 16:1

  > see
  > μήτε θήλεια θεός
  > On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 9:00 PM, Daniel Streett <danstreett at gmail.com> 
  > wrote:
  >> Actually, LSJ gives numerous references where θεός (QEOS) is used with 
  >> the
  >> fem. article, often to refer to Athena:
  >> θεός fem., goddess, μήτε θήλεια θεός, μήτε τις ἄρσην Il.8.7, cf. 
  >> Hdt.2.35,
  >> al.; τοῖς θεοῖς εὔχομαι πᾶσι καὶ πάσαις D.18.1, cf. 141, Orac.ib.21.52; 
  >> esp.
  >> at Athens, of Athena, Decr. ap. And.1.77, Pl.Ti.21a, etc.; ἁ Διὸς θεός,
  >> Ζηνὸς ἡ θ., S.Aj.401 (lyr.), 952 (ἡ Διὸς θεά ib.450); of other goddesses,
  >> ποντία θεός Pi.I. 8(7).36; ἡ νερτέρα θ.,= Περσεφόνη, S.OC1548, etc.; of
  >> Thetis, Pl. Ap.28c; of Niobe, S.El.150 (lyr.), Ant.834 (anap.): in dual, 
  >> of
  >> Demeter and Persephone, τὰ τοῖν θεοῖν ψηφίσματα Ar.V.378 (lyr.); οὐδ' 
  >> ἔδεισε
  >> τὼ θεώ And.1.125; freq. in oaths, νὴ τὼ θεώ Ar.Lys.112; μὰ τὼ θεώ
  >> Id.Ec.155,532.
  >> Daniel R. Streett
  >> Asst. Prof. of Greek and NT
  >> Criswell College, Dallas, TX
  >> On Tue, Dec 14, 2010 at 7:53 PM, nikolaos kadamou 
  >> <ntgreekreader at gmail.com>
  >> wrote:
  >>> Mark, Θεὸς/θεὰ
  >>> in everything else you are right
  >>> On Mon, Dec 13, 2010 at 7:53 PM, Mark Lightman <lightmanmark at yahoo.com>
  >>> wrote:
  >>> > <Certain nouns in Greek are "epicene" (or "common") in that their form
  >>> > is the same for both masculine and feminine but their gender depends
  >>> > on whom the noun is referring to. DIAKONOS (aide) is one of them.
  >>> > PARQENOS (virgin) is another.>
  >>> >
  >>> > θεος (QEOS) is another one. Even ανθρωπος (ANQRWPOS.)
  > ---
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