[B-Greek] Newbie / Lurker question: Please no Heremeneutics discussion
bluemeeksbay at yahoo.com
Thu Aug 26 12:33:06 EDT 2010
You are right, of course. Sometimes I forget myself and respond to a thread
without fully thinking. Please accept my apologies.
From: Carl Conrad <cwconrad2 at mac.com>
To: Blue Meeksbay <bluemeeksbay at yahoo.com>
Cc: B-Greek B-Greek <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Thu, August 26, 2010 9:12:33 AM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Newbie / Lurker question: Please no Heremeneutics
PLEASE LET'S NOT TALK ABOUT HERMENEUTICS.
IT REALLY IS OUT OF BOUNDS FOR B-GREEK.
Carl W. Conrad
Co-Chair, B-Greek List
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
On Aug 26, 2010, at 11:59 AM, Blue Meeksbay wrote:
> Sometimes I think we may too hard on our preachers. I once talked to an Arabic
> Christian about the difference between the Eastern and Western mindset and how
> such a one understands Scripture. For instance, the Western mindset is more
> linear, whereas the Eastern mindset is more general or all encompassing. For
> example, I mentioned Paul’s emphasis about the singular *seed* in Gal.3:16.
> TWi DE ABRAAM ERREQHSAN hAI EPAGGELIAI KAI TWi SPERMATI AUTOU. OU LEGEI• KAI
> TOIS SPERMASIN, hWS EPI POLLWN ALL᾽ hWS EF᾽ hENOS• KAI TWi SPERMATI SOU, hOS
> ESTIN CRISTOS.
> He said the Eastern mindset would never understand Abraham’s seed as referring
> to Christ, (except for the fact that Paul makes such an interpretation);
> he would understand it to mean the nation.
> We all approach Scripture with a particular mindset. Sometimes I think a
> preacher will approach a text and use it as a jumping board to demonstrate a
> particular point, like the example of *now* in Heb. 11:1. I do not know if we
> should always take them so literally. He just uses the word *now* to show that
> faith always brings the potential future into a present possession. It
> a hope and makes it a present reality. This is a common technique in preaching.
> He is just using the English juxtaposition of *now* and *faith* in this verse
> demonstrate this point and does not mean to say the Greek is teaching that
> is always now.
> Now, I am not saying that some preachers may not ignorantly do this, or that
> preacher in question did not do this. It seems from Kenneth’s post, that is
> exactly what he did. But I think sometimes a grammarian that is disciplined to
> look at things in a linear and analytical manner applies that mindset to
> preachers who are not thinking that way, but are thinking in a more broad and
> general manner. We should not take them so literally, but give them space to
> develop their points.
> In one way, they are following a respected hermeneutic of Judaism, and in some
> cases Early Christianity. Some Midrashic hermeneutics were more concerned with
> the practical applications of words within a text rather than a rigid
> of the word within a text. Take, for example, the interpretation Hos. 11:1 by
> Matthew in Matt. 2:15.
> I think, perhaps, we should give our *preaching* brethren a little more
> and understanding and realize that many times they are not approaching the text
> with the same mindset of a grammarian, but are looking at the text with a more
> general mindset, looking at verses from a pastoral heart rather than a more
> literal teachers heart. We should be thankful for their gift, and give them
> space, realizing that a grammarian would probably bore the flock to death.
> Blue Harris
> From: Oun Kwon <kwonbbl at gmail.com>
> To: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> Sent: Wed, August 25, 2010 8:52:49 PM
> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Newbie / Lurker question on Hebrews 11:1 DE as
> transitional conjunction
> On Wed, Aug 25, 2010 at 6:38 PM, Kevin Riley <klriley at alphalink.com.au> wrote:
>> To take 'now' in this context as a temporal word is to misunderstand English.
>> In standard (formal) English, 'now' is a good translation of 'de' in this
>> instance, which is probably why so many translators use it. For it to have a
>> temporal reference it would have to come somewhere else in the sentence.
>> Actually, I am not sure you could put 'now' as a temporal reference into the
>> sentence as it stands without a good bit of restructuring.
>> I suspect the problem is a hermeneutical one rather than one with either the
>> Greek or the English language.
>> Kevin Riley
> How about 'Well then' instead of 'Now'? It may remove 'now'
> misunderstood as a temporal marker.
> Oun Kwon
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