[B-Greek] Josephus' "Son", War 5:272

George F Somsel gfsomsel at yahoo.com
Thu Aug 19 10:31:34 EDT 2010

It isn't necessarily wrong.  I should have checked BDB in addition to HALOT 
which I have been using for a number of years since it has the Ugaritic 
material.  Sometimes, however, the older resources are better in certain 
respects.  With the plural אֲבָנִים rather than אֲבָנוֹת one would expect it to 
be masc.  In this case while it lists אֶבֶן as a fem, it also cites 1 Sam 17.40 
where it is clearly construed as a masc since it used the m pl suffix attached 
to the sign of the acc to reference אֲבָנִים.  

I think you impute too much understanding to the 1st cent readers.  They would 
not have readily made the connection.  It is not at all clear that Josephus 
understood Hebrew regardless of what someone else may claim.  Regardless of the 
fact that my middle initial is "F", I may assure you that my middle name is in 
reality "Thomas" so I will need to see the evidence.


… search for truth, hear truth, 
learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth, 
defend the truth till death.

- Jan Hus

From: Randall Buth <randallbuth at gmail.com>
To: George F Somsel <gfsomsel at yahoo.com>
Cc: B Greek <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Thu, August 19, 2010 5:21:12 AM
Subject: Re: Josephus' "Son", War 5:272

<gfsomsel at yahoo.com> wrote:
> Actually, it would not be Ba-a but rather simply Ba'.

George, what should we do with this? It's wrong.
You've taken what was correct (my note),
and changed it into a simple mistake.
The correct form with [even] 'stone', a feminine, is
ba-a, באה, not ba.

[[Maybe this explains Casey's bad Aramaic, too. Maybe
he did something similar to what you did (but people
sometimes cite him for Aramaic! O ANAGINWSKWN

Your Ezekiel text ובא u-va means 'and would come' and
refers to the antecedent 'a man, whoever . . .'
The other text 'ba' (Qre with alef) means
'while he comes/since he came'. Neither refers to a stone (feminine).
(I deleted it below because emails don't handle Qre/Ktiv very
well. And it's irrelevant to your issue.)

Hopefully, this much is now clear.
on your other Unsinn, it is really impossible to imagine a
first century person so out of touch that they were capable
of translating 'the son is coming' from Hebrew but not know
'the stone is coming'. After all, "even" is COGNATE to both
Aramaic and Hebrew, and they weren't dependent on
'bible software'. You're just going to have to take Josephus
at his word, they said "the son is coming" in the patriarchal
language. Crazy rebels.

Randall Buth

> Unfortunately, the
> search capabilities for Hebrew are not on a level with
> those for Greek so it was somewhat difficult to find the proper form >(somewhat 
>rare in canonical Hebrew).  Since the form is weak
> it is not automatically constructable.  It is found in Ezk 14.4-7 3 times.
> Ezekiel 14:4 (BHS/WHM 4.2)
> 4 לָכֵן דַּבֵּר־אוֹתָם וְאָמַרְתָּ אֲלֵיהֶם כֹּה־אָמַר׀ אֲדֹנָי יְהוִ֗ה
> אִישׁ אִישׁ מִבֵּית יִשְׂרָאֵל אֲשֶׁר יַעֲלֶה אֶת־גִּלּוּלָיו אֶל־לִבּוֹ
> וּמִכְשׁוֹל עֲוֹנוֹ יָשִׂים נֹכַח פָּנָיו וּבָא אֶל־הַנָּבִיא
> george
> gfsomsel

Randall Buth, PhD
randallbuth at gmail.com
Biblical Language Center
Learn Easily - Progress Further - Remember for Life


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