[B-Greek] John 2:15

Oun Kwon kwonbbl at gmail.com
Wed Aug 11 22:09:24 EDT 2010


On Wed, Aug 11, 2010 at 2:11 PM, Blue Meeksbay <bluemeeksbay at yahoo.com> wrote:
> [One more beat ... but first let me also add to the SUGCARTIKA  for  Louis
> Sorenson.


He will surely be moderate to prod those us going astray on the list -
that seems a job cut out for a moderators ;-)

>
>
> Hi Leonard –
>
> I agree with you that the actions, more than likely, occurred at the same time.
> However, Carl Conrad's take that PANTAS refers back to verse 14 seems to make
> more sense, not because the language would not allow it to refer only to the
> sheep and oxen, (as Yancy showed in his excellent post), but simply because the
> context seems to demand it.

No, the context does not demand it. Why not take PANTAS both
anaphorically as well as kataphorically?  It's just 'all', not 'all of
these'.

> If  EXEBALEN referred only to the sheep and oxen,
> it would take some time to drive them out from the court of the Gentiles through
> the sheep gate and EK TOU hIEROU.   From extra-biblical sources we have
> indications that there were not just a few animals there, but there may have
> been hundreds of sheep and oxen. Indeed, there could have easily been over a
> thousand animals.  Who knows how long that would take?  (Alfred Edersheim
> mentions that at a previous time 3000 sheep had been introduced into the temple
> precincts.)
>

The text reads 'he drove out' - I rather take it as 'He had them
driven out'. The point is not that they got driven out and put outside
the courtyard. Yeah, people would make a skedaddle to run after their
treasure.

> If John was saying Jesus drove out just the sheep and oxen out of the temple,
> then, more than likely, it seems John would have included another word, say,
> like hUPOSTREFW (I hope this would be the proper word) and said something like
> this –
>
>
> KAI POIHSAS FRAGELLION EK SCOINIWN PANTAS EXEBALEN EK TOU hIEROU TA TE PROBATA
> KAI TOUS BOAS, KAI [hUPOSTREFW ]  TWN KOLLUBISTWN EXECEEN TO KERMA KAI TAS
> TRAPEZAS ANETREYEN,
>
> And making a whip out of rope He drove all of them out of the temple, both the
> sheep and oxen, and [returning], he dumped out the coins of the moneychangers
> and turned over their tables
>
> But, of course, that is not what it said.

<clipped>

No, that [returning] is not necessary at all in reading the narrative.

>
<clipped>.
>
> As this market place was all contained,  more than likely, in one area of the
> court of the Gentiles, it seems Jesus would be doing all three actions at the
> same time. He would approach ...

How can be 'doing all three actions AT THE SAME TIME'?  What you
described about is nothing other than actions in sequence ( not
'chronological') - 1. sheep and oxen 2. coins and tables 3. doves.

>
<Clipped>
>
>
> Blue Harris
>



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