[B-Greek] Question on I Timothy 2:1 (also I Timothy 2:9)

Blue Meeksbay bluemeeksbay at yahoo.com
Sat Aug 7 18:23:13 EDT 2010


Thanks George. 
 
It seems most take it that way, (of which I am not opposed if a grammatical 
pattern can be found), although I tend to think the writer may be using it with 
the additional nuance of first temporally in I Tim. 2:1 because of the greater 
context. The reason I wonder this is because it was a common practice in the 
synagogue to have prayers first, then the reading and the teaching of Scripture. 
I wonder if the writer of I Timothy is instructing Timothy to follow the same 
pattern since it seems conduct in the church was one of the reasons the epistle 
was written.
 
 I hope to come to you soon, but I am writing these instructions to you in case 
I am delayed, to let you know how people ought to conduct themselves in the 
household of God, because it is the church of the living God, the support and 
bulwark of the truth. 1Ti 3:14-15 NET
 
It is interesting that in your quote from *A Greek English Lexicon* it is not 
only used in 2 Cor. 8:5, as first, in the sense of most important, as you point 
out, but also in the sense of, first temporally, assuming we give ourselves to 
the Lord first before we give ourselves to others.
 
Blue Harris
 



________________________________
From: George F Somsel <gfsomsel at yahoo.com>
To: Blue Meeksbay <bluemeeksbay at yahoo.com>; b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
Sent: Sat, August 7, 2010 2:19:22 PM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Question on I Timothy 2:1 (also I Timothy 2:9)


I would not take PROTON as indicating the first item temporally but rather that 
which the author considers to be most important or especially important (perhaps 
not THE MOST IMPORTANT).
ⓑadv. 
Arndt, William, Frederick W. Danker and Walter Bauer. A Greek-English Lexicon of 
the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature. 3rd ed. Chicago: 
University of Chicago Press, 2000.


 george
gfsomsel 


… search for truth, hear truth, 
learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth, 
defend the truth till death.


- Jan Hus
_________ 




________________________________
From: Blue Meeksbay <bluemeeksbay at yahoo.com>
To: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
Sent: Sat, August 7, 2010 7:42:13 AM
Subject: [B-Greek] Question on I Timothy 2:1 (also I Timothy 2:9)

PARAKALW OUN PRWTON PANTWN POIEISQAI DEHSEIS PROSEUCAS ENTEUXEIS EUCARISTIAS 
hUPER PANTWN ANQRWPWN.   1 TIMOTHY 2:1
 
In considering the verse above, I was wondering what a first century Greek 
reader (or hearer) would naturally think the writer of I Timothy meant by the 
verse quoted above. 

 
Would he think he is mentioning the first thing he exhorts Timothy to do, or 
would he think he is mentioning the first thing he wants the church to do in 
their gathering together. In other words, which word is PRWTONmodifying – 
PARAKALWor POIEISQAI.
 
Should we understand it as, for example, as the NASB does, where PRWTONmodifies 
PARAKALW –  *First of all, then, I urge that entreaties and prayers, petitions 
and thanksgivings, be made on behalf of all men.* Or should it be understood as 
PRWTONmodifying POIEISQAI  so that it would be understood something like this – 
*I therefore exhort, that first of all, entreaties and prayers, petitions and 
thanksgivings, be made in behalf of  all men.*
 
I cannot find any pattern in the GNT that might help us.  Sometimes PRWTONis 
before the word it modifies as it does in Rom. 1:8.
 
   PRWTON MEN EUCARISTW TWi QEWi MOU DIA IHSOU CRISTOU PERI PANTWN hUMWN hOTI hH 

PISTIS hUMWN KATAGGELLETAI EN hOLWi TWi KOSMWi.
 
Sometimes it is after the word it modifies as in John 1:41
 
hEURISKEI hOUTOS PRWTON TON ADELFON TON IDION SIMWNA KAI LEGEI AUTWi• hEURHKAMEN 

TON MESSIAN, hO ESTIN MEQERMHNEUOMENON CRISTOS.
 
And sometimes it seems it can go either way. 
 
LUKE 9:59 EIPEN DE PROS hETERON• AKOLOUQEI MOI. hO DE EIPEN• [KURIE,] EPITREYON 
MOI APELQONTI PRWTON QAYAI TON PATERA MOU.
                                                       
(It seems this verse could be understood as – first permit me to go and bury my 
father, or, permit me to go and first bury my father.)
 
Does anyone who is well read in classic Greek texts or extra biblical Greek 
texts know of any patterns that might help us – maybe patterns of PRWTON used 
with verbs of exhortation?
 
 Perhaps we can never know for sure since the answer might only be known by 
where the reader of the epistle paused. In other words, if the reader cried out 
* PARAKALW OUN* and then paused before continuing the hearer would know PRWTON 
PANTWN belongs with POIEISQAI.  Conversely, if the reader cried out * PARAKALW 
OUN PRWTON PANTWN *, and then paused, the hearer would know it belonged with 
PARAKALW.
 
However, since we cannot avail ourselves of that, it seems the only thing we are 

left with is context, and if we take the context, it seems Paul is saying this 
is one of the first things he desires the church to do when it comes together in 

assembly. He first deals with the public prayers of both men and women (vs. 
1-10) and then moves into the teaching aspect (vs. 11-15) of the church 
gathering. (I believe WSAUTWS in verse 9 should be seen as referring back to 
BOULOMAI  and also PROSEUCESQAI  in verse 8, so that Paul is saying – *In like 
manner I desire the women to pray in proper attire, with modesty and 
discreteness – to adorn themselves, not with braided hair and gold, or pearls or 

expensive clothing, but with good works, (which is appropriate to women 
proclaiming piety.*). 

 
It seems the context is saying that prayer is based upon two things – 1) with 
men it is based upon sanctification (holy hands) and 2) with women it is based 
upon lives of charity (good works). (Perhaps, because of Jam. 5: 16b ). 
Therefore, the context seems to refer to the public worship of the church and 
not to the first thing he exhorts Timothy to do. Besides the first exhortation 
to Timothy was given to him in I Tim. 1:3, not 2:1.
 
Any thougts?
 
Cordially,
Blue Harris
 
P.S.  Does anyone also believe that WSAUTWS in I Tim. 2:9 should include 
PROSEUCESQAI of verse 8?    It seems a similar passage would be Luke 22:19-20, 
where it seems the hWSAUTWS  of verse 20 should not only include LABWN but also 
EUCARISTHSAS, so that the verse should read, *And in like manner, after supper 
[he took] the cup, [and gave thanks] saying, etc.* 

 
LUKE 22:19  KAI LABWN ARTON EUCARISTHSAS EKLASEN KAI EDWKEN AUTOIS LEGWN• TOUTO 
ESTIN TO SWMA MOU TO hUPER hUMWN DIDOMENON• TOUTO POIEITE EIS THN EMHN 
ANAMNHSIN.
 
LUKE 22:20 KAI TO POTHRION hWSAUTWS META TO DEIPNHSAI, LEGWN• TOUTO TO POTHRION 
hH KAINH DIAQHKH EN TWi hAIMATI MOU TO hUPER hUMWN EKCUNNOMENON.


      
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πρῶτονof degree in the first place, above all, especially(Jos., Ant. 10, 213) 
ζητεῖτε πρῶτον τὴν βασιλείανMt 6:33. Ἰουδαίῳ τε πρῶτον καὶ ἝλληνιRo 1:16; cp. 
2:9f.—Ac 3:26; 2 Pt 1:20; 3:3. Of the Macedonian Christians ἑαυτοὺς ἔδωκαν 
πρῶτον τῷ κυρίῳ καὶ ἡμῖνthey gave themselves first of all to the Lord, and 
(then) to us 2 Cor 8:5. παρακαλῶ πρῶτον πάντωνfirst of all I urge 1 Ti 2:1.—B. 
939. DELG. M-M. EDNT. TW. Sv. 



      


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