[B-Greek] Justin Martyr, Dialogue with Trypho, Ch. XLVIII, §1

Graeme Hibbard edwardhibbard at yahoo.co.nz
Sat Aug 7 14:14:07 EDT 2010






________________________________
From: James Ernest <j.d.ernest at bc.edu>
To: Graeme Hibbard <edwardhibbard at yahoo.co.nz>
Sent: Sat, 7 August, 2010 4:08:22 PM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Justin Martyr, Dialogue with Trypho, Ch. XLVIII, §1

I usually hit reply-to-all and then delete the addresses other than the list 
address. If you just hit "reply" you're going to send only to the person to 
whose post you are replying. I regard this as a flaw in the list setup.
JE


On Fri, Aug 6, 2010 at 11:34 PM, Graeme Hibbard <edwardhibbard at yahoo.co.nz> 
wrote:

Yes, I did.
>
>I am a new member and have never posted anything before.
>
>How do I do that?
>
>
>
>
________________________________
From: James Ernest <j.d.ernest at bc.edu>
>To: Graeme Hibbard <edwardhibbard at yahoo.co.nz>
>Sent: Thu, 5 August, 2010 1:06:44 PM
>
>Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Justin Martyr, Dialogue with Trypho, Ch. XLVIII, §1
>
>
>Graeme,
>Did you mean to post to the  list?
>James
>
>
>On Wed, Aug 4, 2010 at 7:07 PM, Graeme Hibbard <edwardhibbard at yahoo.co.nz> 
>wrote:
>
>(ἄλλος) VS (ἕτερος) 
>>
>>Perhaps these quotes will help:
>>
>>[Synonyms of the New Testament by Richard Trench, 1944, page 357] "Trench warns, 
>>"There are not a few passages in the N.T. whose right interpretation, or at any 
>>rate their full understanding, will depend on an accurate seizing of the 
>>distinction between [ἄλλος & ἕτερος] these words."..."- ([As quoted in] Weusts 
>>Word Studies - Studies in the Vocabulary of the Greek New Testament for the 
>>English Reader in the Greek New Testament by Kenneth Wuest 1961 Pages 142-148.) 
>>
>>
>>The same could be said for the correct interpretation of Justin Martyr.
>>
>>Definitions and differences between (ἄλλος) Allos and (ἕτερος) Heteros:
>>
>>"Trench says: [ἄλλος]'Allos is numerically distinct ... being of the same 
>>character ... But [ἕτερος] heteros, ... superadds the notion of qualitative 
>>difference'... In summing up the difference between these two words we offer the 
>>following: [ἕτερος] Heteros means "another of a differen't kind," [ἄλλος] allos 
>>"another of the same kind." [ἕτερος] Heteros denotes qualitative difference, 
>>[ἄλλος] "allos numerical difference."... Trench warns, "There are not a few 
>>passages in the N.T. whose right interpretation, or at any rate their full 
>>understanding, will  depend on an accurate seizing of the distinction between 
>>[ἄλλος & ἕτερος] these words."..." - (Weusts Word Studies - Studies in the 
>>Vocabulary of the Greek New Testament for the English Reader in the Greek New 
>>Testament by Kenneth Wuest 1961 Pages 142-148.) 
>>
>>
>>Marvin Vincent's Word Studies In The Greek NT: "Another [ἄλλος] (allos) means 
>>more than one with all being of the same like character or a different one in 
>>the character of the first. The following are from Vine's. [ἕτερος] Heteros is 
>>never used in reference to the Trinity: ANOTHER [ἄλλος] indicates numeral 
>>distinction of objects of similar character, ... Another [ἕτερος] (heteros) 
>>means more than one with all being of a different character or a  different one 
>>not of the same character as the first: OTHER [ἕτερος] indicates either 
>>numerical distinction, e.g., Luke 4:43; 5:7; or generic distinction, different 
>>in character, etc.,..."
>>
>>ANOTHER [ἄλλος] allos [ἕτερος]heteros have a difference in meaning, which 
>>despite a tendency to be lost, is to be observed in numerous passages. [ἄλλος] 
>>Allos expresses a numerical difference and denotes "another of the same sort;" 
>>[ἕτερος] heteros expresses a qualitative difference and denotes "another of a 
>>different sort." (Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words)
>>
>>Robertson's Word Pictures: "[ἄλλος] (allon ...). Another of like kind  [ἄλλος] 
>>(allon, not [ἕτερος] eteron ),..." 
>>
>>
>>Context:
>>
>>(56:3)LVI: 3 “... ὅτι θεὸς ἢ κύριος ἄλλος τίς ἐστιν ἢ λέλεκται ἀπὸ τοῦ ἁγίου 
>>πνεύματος παρὰ τὸν ποιητὴν τῶν ὅλων...
>>
>>Literally: “Therefore, a god or a lord another numerically who is CALLED from of 
>>the holy spirit besides the Actual/Real/True Maker…" (56:3) 
>>
>>
>>παρὰ = often used of comparisons. Perhaps render:
>>
>>“Therefore, a god or a lord another numerically who is CALLED from of  (of) the 
>>holy spirit compared to the Actual/Real/True Maker…" (56:3) 
>>
>>
>>More context:
>>
>>(56:4)LVI: 4 “...ὅτι ἐστὶ καὶ λέγεται θεὸς καὶ κύριος ἕτερος ὑπὸ τὸν ποιητὴν τῶν 
>>ὅλων, ὃς καὶ ἄγγελος καλεῖται, διὰ τὸ ἀγγέλλειν τοῖς ἀνθρώποις ὅσαπερ βούλεται 
>>αὐτοῖς ἀγγεῖλαι ὁ τῶν ὅλων ποιητής, ὑπὲρ ὃν ἄλλος θεὸς οὐκ ἔστι...” - Dialouge 
>>of Justin Philosopher and Martyr with Trypho a Jew, Chapter 56;
>>
>>Paraphrased:
>>
>>"Because he is also called another god of a differen't kind and quality, who is 
>>[ὑπὸ] subordinate to the Real-Actual Maker, who is also called an "Angel", 
>>[because] through this (one) in behalf of the True Maker, of whom there exists 
>>no other of the same kind, anounces his will to mankind, ..." (56:4)
>>
>>The  Logos to Justin was (ὑπὸ) subordinate (or below, under, beneath) and was a 
>>(ἕτερος) differen't kind of (θεὸς) in comparison to (τὸν ποιητὴν τῶν ὅλων) the 
>>Actual-Real Maker.
>>
>>
>>
>>
________________________________
From: James Ernest <j.d.ernest at bc.edu>
>>
>>To: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
>>Sent: Wed, 4 August, 2010 12:13:58 AM
>>Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Justin Martyr, Dialogue with Trypho, Ch. XLVIII, §1
>>
>>
>>On Mon, Aug 2, 2010 at 11:43 PM, James Ernest wrote:
>>
>>> <snip>
>>> Κἀγὼ πάλιν· Ἃ λέγω πειράσομαι  ὑμᾶς πεῖσαι͵ νοήσαντας τὰς γραφάς͵ ὅτι ἐστὶ
>>> καὶ λέγεται θεὸς καὶ κύριος ἕτερος ὑπὸ τὸν ποιητὴν τῶν ὅλων͵ ὃς καὶ ἄγγελος
>>> καλεῖται͵ διὰ τὸ ἀγγέλλειν τοῖς ἀνθρώποις ὅσαπερ βούλεται αὐτοῖς ἀγγεῖλαι ὁ
>>> τῶν ὅλων ποιητής͵ ὑπὲρ ὃν ἄλλος θεὸς οὐκ ἔστι.
>>>
>>> Note that the sentence closes with another plain statement that there is no
>>> other god than the maker of the universe. <snip>
>>>
>>
>>Well, actually that last bit isn't quite that plain. More likely he's saying
>>here that there isn't another (who is QEOS) beyond the POIHTHS corresponding
>>to the other (who is QEOS) who is below the POIHTHS. It appears that last
>>night JE was reading hUPER hON as "in addition to"  without noticing the
>>likely correspondence with the preceding hUPO. There is a hETEROS but not an
>>ALLOS.
>>
>>James Ernest
>>
>>---
>>B-Greek home page: http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek
>>B-Greek mailing list
>>B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org
>>http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-greek
>>
>> 
>
> 



      


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