[B-Greek] Rev 14:13 AP ARTI
kwonbbl at gmail.com
Tue Aug 3 18:19:03 EDT 2010
Thanks John for your thought.
By parenthetical, I meant to use it in terms of sentence structure.
That way, I can effectively disconnect AP' ARTI from APOQNHSKONTES ;-)
Of course, thematically it is important and essential. It almost comes
to me something like another group in a chorus chiming in.
If I take a script writer's license to put it into a responsive reading:
Group I: "Blessed are the dead"
Group 2: "the ones who die in the Lord!"
Group 1 & 2 (in place of the Spirit): "From now on, yes, they may rest
from their toil for what they have done surely will follow on after
It simply does not make any sense to have John say 'those dying from
now on'. What would it mean by 'now'? How about those already died
(as martyrs)? etc.
Even if I break the sentence after the phrase AP' ARTI, I believe
this phrase is better off when paired with MAKARIOI. Same as you put
My choice is to break the sentence after APOQNHSKONTE, so that AP'
ARTI goes kataphorically (as DRB renders). What I am worried is
whether the Greek word/phrase order is natural with NAI to follow.
On Tue, Aug 3, 2010 at 1:34 AM, John Sanders
<john.franklin.sanders at gmail.com> wrote:
> My dear friend Oun,
> I would look at this differently. I hope this difference is not due to a
> poor education on my part. You introduce the concept of identifying hOI EN
> KURIW APOQNHSKONTES as parenthetical. Let me begin by using English first,
> with two examples, one using the phrase as parenthetical (enclosing the
> phrase in parenthesis) and the other otherwise.
> 1) From now on happy are the dead (they dying in the Lord).
> 2) Hence forth blessed are the dead, who are dying in the Lord.
> From my perspective I cannot see a lick of difference resulting from a
> difference of categorizing the phrase hOI EN KURIW APOQNHSKONTES.
> Now I did move the adverbial time phrase to the beginning of the phrases,
> but in Indo-European languages that is often permissible. The adverbial
> time phrase can function at the phrase level, or so I have been led to
> These words are not strangers to one another, but have a strong connection
> which John describes. He begins with a “what”. MAKARIOI. And he is
> associating this MAKARIOI with a “who”, the hOI NEKROI. But it is not with
> just any NEKROI, but a specific NEKROI. All NEKROI die, which is the way to
> become a NEKROI, but John is describing the NEKROI that died in a certain
> manner, EN KURIW APOQNHSKONTES.
> The MAKARIOI, the hOI NEKROI, and the EN KURIW APOQNHSKONTES are all
> connected, you should not think of one without the other aspects. So the
> adverbial time phrase will affect the whole, they all are AP’ ARTI. But as
> I look at it, the center of the theme, as well as the geometrical center, is
> KURIOS. The two outliers are based on this center. The MAKARIOI is a
> function of EN KURIW, as well as the other end, the AP’ ARTI. My skill at
> literary analysis is less than my skill at grammatical analysis.
> John Sanders
> Suzhou, China
> On Sat, Jul 31, 2010 at 8:56 AM, Oun Kwon <kwonbbl at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Rev 14:13
>> ... MAKARIOI hOI NEKROI hOI EN KURIW APOQNHSKONTES AP' ARTI NAI LEGEI
>> TO PNEUMA hINA ANAPAHSONTAI EK TWN KOPWN AUTWN ...
>> My question to solve is: What is AP' APT construed to?
>> I doubt John was specifying them as those "dying from now on" (as
>> rendered by most including KJV, etc.)
>> May it be to MAKARIOI? (e.g. NAB, etc.) as if taking hOI EN KURIW
>> APOQNHSKONTES as parenthetical explanation of hOI NEKROI
>> Or, can I break this sentence after APOQNHSKONTES, as is rendered in
>> DRB? In that case the general sense seems to me to be same as taking
>> AP' ARTI construed to MAKARIOI.
>> Oun Kwon.
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