[B-Greek] Translate Sprechen Sie Attich (Greek Phrasebook) intoEnglish?

Louis Sorenson llsorenson at hotmail.com
Mon Aug 2 20:05:52 EDT 2010


In reply to comments listed below....

Louis writes:
Koine/Attic is a constant struggle to disambiguate.
It would be interesting to know if someone who knew
only Attic would misread the NT Koine (add meaning 
or subtract meaning). Those on schola.ning.com kind of
look down on schole.ning.com because we don't speak 
Attic Greek or write in Attic. We kind of mix them up.
But we don't mix up what we read in an ancient author
as they wrote what they wrote. 

But I think it would be easy enough to find if these
phrases exist in Greek Literature and in which authors. 
I use the TLG database all the 
time to verify phrases for my Greek Song translations. If I can't
find a phrase happening more than several times (usually you can
always find at least one occurrence of a phrase) I stay away from 
it -- but If I find it in Euripides and not in Koine writers
I still will use it if I must (after-all songs are poetry) and
poets deserve license.  

Regardless, the point of a phrasebook is to get people to understand
how to read "ancient greek" and not just to speak any given dialect.
The point of using speaking as a tool to learn reading is that
structures are internalized more quickly and put into long-term memory.
Krashen did studies on short term memory and found that grammar-based
approach never lasted longer than three minutes (per Blaine Ray)
in a person's short term memory.  Moving vocabulary and structures
from short-term memory, into working-memory and then 
into long-term memory is the goal of a vocal/aural based methodology. 

I am surprised when I read some of the phrases in Johannides book.
He uses modern names xaire w Karole χαῖρε ὦ Κάρολε. (must have known
C. Conrad?) But when I read phrase extracts from Theory of advanced 
Greek prose composition, with digest of Greek idioms (1921) by John Donovan
Volume 1Volume 2 
that there are phrases that surprise me also. Donovan gets all
his phrases as extracts from Attic authors. This of course would
be ideal for Koine (as Vasile suggest)- but in the meantime, this
little book would be a great tool to have in English-Greek.

I have had a good response from an number of people. It would be
nice to set up some kind a team translation and get those who know
Greek and German and English to sign off on the English glosses.
Some kind of a Wiki or collaborative software is most likely 
needed. 

Ti nomizeis; 
Leonidas Sorenides
Louis Sorenson





George F Somsel <gfsomsel at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
>> So far I don't see any evidence that the intent was to use only expressions
>> current in the 1st cent.  It would seem from his mention of Aristophanes and
>> Plato in the introduction that it is geared more toward classical Greek than
>> koine.
>> 
>> 

Randall Buth wrote:
 >yes, even those need checking.
 >And Louis' intention is as Koine resource.

Carl Conrad wrote:
>If that be the case, then the project has no point. Eduard Johnson intended to
>make this a pedagogical instrument for Attic Greek. If Louis is looking for a
>"pure" Koine Umgangsprache, that's a different matter. I'd be perfectly happy
>to English it as it stands and let someone else filter it for "pure" Koine if there
>really is such an animal.

Randall Buth wrote:
>> I remember a different problem with the book.
>> the phrases need to be searched in order to verify their Attic currency and
>> to verify that they were in use in the first century.

Carl Conrad wrote:
Oddly enough, the book was reprinted in March 2010 by Nabu Press
 (http://tinyurl.com/2u6vrph).The blurb: "This is an EXACT reproduction 
of a book published before 1923.

L Sorenides egrayen ἑγραψεν




 		 	   		  


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