[B-Greek] Question about HLQON vs HLQAN, and EIPON vs EIPAN, etc.

Sarah Madden sarah.r.madden at gmail.com
Wed Apr 28 15:42:44 EDT 2010


Thanks, Carl, for an excellent explanatin about the alpha/omicron aorists,
basically that "it is what it is because it is." Works for me!

Sarah ><>
aka Hawkeye Pierce 2009

On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 3:25 PM, Carl Conrad <cwconrad2 at mac.com> wrote:

> On Apr 28, 2010, at 2:13 PM, Sarah Madden wrote:
> > Thanks, Jeff. I confess I hadn't noticed (or had forgotten) that
> > these aorists don't fit the expected patterns until it was brought to my
> > attention.
> >
> > Sarah ><>
>
> I think it's probably worth noting that over the course of centuries the
> Alpha-endings
> increasingly became normative in all the past tenses. Already in Homer
> there are two
> alpha-ending second-aorist verbs: HNEGKA (= HNEGKON) and ECEA (from CEW,
> "pour"). In modern Greek all past tenses have alpha endings in the active.
>
> Carl W. Conrad
> Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
>
> On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 3:25 PM, Carl Conrad <cwconrad2 at mac.com> wrote:

> On Apr 28, 2010, at 2:13 PM, Sarah Madden wrote:
> > Thanks, Jeff. I confess I hadn't noticed (or had forgotten) that
> > these aorists don't fit the expected patterns until it was brought to my
> > attention.
> >
> > Sarah ><>
>
> I think it's probably worth noting that over the course of centuries the
> Alpha-endings
> increasingly became normative in all the past tenses. Already in Homer
> there are two
> alpha-ending second-aorist verbs: HNEGKA (= HNEGKON) and ECEA (from CEW,
> "pour"). In modern Greek all past tenses have alpha endings in the active.
>
> Carl W. Conrad
> Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
>
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 2:07 PM, Jeff Smelser <jeffsmelser at ntgreek.net
> >wrote:
> >
> >> These are instances of the alpha seen in weak aorist forms (a.k.a "1st
> >> aorist") being acquired by strong aorist (a.k.a. "2nd aorist") forms and
> >> used in place of the expected omicron.
> >>
> >> Jeff Smelser
> >>
> >>
> >> On Wed, Apr 28, 2010 at 2:07 PM, Jeff Smelser <jeffsmelser at ntgreek.net
> >wrote:
> >
> >> These are instances of the alpha seen in weak aorist forms (a.k.a "1st
> >> aorist") being acquired by strong aorist (a.k.a. "2nd aorist") forms and
> >> used in place of the expected omicron.
> >>
> >> Jeff Smelser
> >>
> >> Sarah Madden wrote:
> >>
> >> To all --
> >> While I was tutoring students Monday night, one man (a lawyer!) asked
> why
> >> "HLQAN" is parsed as Aor Act Ind 3P, where it does not fit the expected
> >> "pattern" of a 2nd aorist (with imperfect endings) or a liquid aorist
> (drops
> >> the sigma).
> >>
> >> I noticed that often two forms for the same word appear in the same NT
> book.
> >> Frequency numbers are from Tony Fisher's site (only because it's easy
> >> to use) and might not be totally accurate.
> >>
> >> *For ERCOMAI:*
> >>
> >> HLQON occurs 43x (e.g., Luke 2:44)
> >> HLQAN occurs 5x (Luke 2:16; John 1:39, 4:27; Acts 12:10, 28:15)
> >>
> >> *The same thing occurs with LEGW:*
> >>
> >> EIPON occurs 26x (e.g., Matt 12:24)
> >> EIPAN occurs 121x (e.g., Magg 3:9)
> >>
> >> *Then there's hORAW:*
> >>
> >> EIDON occurs 22x (e.g., Matt 17:8)
> >> EIDAN occurs 5x (e.g., Matt 13:17)
> >>
> >> I know *how* to parse HLQAN and EIPAN -- but I can't explain the
> >> *reason*(not that I myself need a reason, but I'd like to give this
> >> lawyer an
> >> answer). Ideas?
>
>
>
>
>


-- 
Sarah ><>
sarah.r.madden at gmail.com
work: 301.429.8189



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