[B-Greek] Fw: Recommendation for Koine Greek text

Mark Lightman lightmanmark at yahoo.com
Thu Apr 15 13:01:20 EDT 2010


Actually, has anyone seen Frank Beetham's Introduction to New Testament Greek

http://www.amazon.com/Introduction-New-Testament-Greek-Language/dp/1853993387/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1271350278&sr=1-4

 
It seems to be somewhat neglected.  Beetham's Plato book is one of the best books I have ever gone
through, and his Homer book is pretty good too (thought the font is awful small.)  He is one of the few people
to include an answer key, which may or may not work for your students.  On the Analysis/Fluency Scale
I would put his other books somewhere to the right of Paula Sapphire and to the left of Chase and Phillips. 

Mark L



FWSFOROS MARKOS




________________________________
From: Gene Cockerham <gene.cockerham at ncpres.org>
To: George F Somsel <gfsomsel at yahoo.com>; Carl Conrad <cwconrad2 at mac.com>; Mark Lightman <lightmanmark at yahoo.com>
Cc: Biblical Greek List <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Thu, April 15, 2010 6:59:41 AM
Subject: RE: [B-Greek] Fw: Recommendation for Koine Greek text

Is there a text that you prefer?  I'm trying to prepare for next year and finding the practice exercises that Mounce uses far too confusing for 7th & 8th grade students.  The basic text I enjoy - it's just his exercises that I feel need some work (for that age student anyway).


-----Original Message-----
From: b-greek-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org [mailto:b-greek-bounces at lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of George F Somsel
Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2010 4:42 PM
To: Carl Conrad; Mark Lightman
Cc: Biblical Greek List
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Fw: Recommendation for Koine Greek text

TO MACHEN'S GRAMMAR    

How do I hate thee? Let me count the ways.
george
gfsomsel 


… search for truth, hear truth, 
learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth, 
defend the truth till death.


- Jan Hus
_________ 




________________________________
From: Carl Conrad <cwconrad2 at mac.com>
To: Mark Lightman <lightmanmark at yahoo.com>
Cc: Biblical Greek List <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Wed, April 14, 2010 11:44:56 AM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Fw: Recommendation for Koine Greek text

On Apr 14, 2010, at 2:00 PM, Mark Lightman wrote:
> Gene wrote:
> 
> Without Machen's
>> style of repetition, simple introductory exercises, and
>> English to Greek
>> translation I would never get through to these
>> students. 
> 
> and Kevin wrote
> 
> <I would recommend the Dan McCartney's revision of Machen.>
> 
> and Michael L wrote
> 
>> I am on the last chapter of the first edition of Machen's
>> New Testament
>> Greek for Beginners.... Overall, despite
>> criticism of the book
>> being antiquated by some in b-greek, 
>> the book's main benefit is the English to Greek translation
>> exercises in my
>> opinion. 
> 
> Hi, Gene and  Kevin and Michael,
> 
> I think it is good to hear from people who like Machen.
> Opinion has always been divided on B-Greek between those
> who want to praise Machen and those who want to bury him.

Er ... was Machen's last name "Caesar"?

> Without weighing in on this myself, 
> I would only point out four indisputable facts:

Indisputable? Lightman Lists (patent applied for but not yet granted) are always provocative.

> 1.  Machen is the best introductory Greek text book published during the Harding Administration.

I think I'd want to check which other textbooks were published in the years 1921-23 before affirming that; 
there may have been another. Maybe even two.

> 2.  The name "Machen" is a little easier to pronounce than the name "Mounce."

If two syllables are easier to pronounce than one, how could anyone doubt this?

> 3.  Carl Conrad learned to read Greek from a text book which he admits is WORSE than
>    Machen, and Carl's Greek is pretty good.

No thanks to the textbook (Rife, oddly still in print). I have said (almost ad nauseam if not in fact all the way ad nauseam) 
that learning Greek has more to do with the student's ability and desire to learn and the teacher's ability to explain things
and inspire enthusiasm than it does with a textbook. I don't doubt that there are students who can and have learned using
Machen's textbook, but I would be inclined to think that those who do learn using Machen do so more in spite of the
textbook than because of it.

I've objected to Machen more often than I have stated what my objections are. Simply put, the sentences for conversion
from Greek to English are often very unidiomatic and occasionally grammatically inaccurate; they often give the impression
of being composed in English and then converted to Greek sentences. The sentences to be  converted from English to Greek 
seemed to me to be phrased in a way that suggests questionable Greek idiom. I'd like to think this is something improved 
considerably in the revised edition.

> 4.  Machen is the only commonly used text book to be dedicated to one's mother, which is why
>      it is very popular in my house.  :)

I knew there had to be a reason; for everything there is a reason -- or is that supposed to be "a season"?
Mother's Day is icumin in.

Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
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