[B-Greek] How we understand Greek usage

Richard Lindeman oblchurch at msn.com
Mon Apr 5 22:12:45 EDT 2010


I wonder too if this might simply be a play on words by St. Paul. The range
of meaning for FOBOS KAI TROMOS is so broad, with possibilities ranging from
"Fear and trembling in terror" all the way to "Awe and trembling in joy".
The former can be seen as completely appropriate in the relationship of a
slave to his master. And the latter can be seen as completely appropriate in
the relationship of a Christian with Christ. Is this perhaps a tension of
meaning that St Paul simply intended to leave in place for the readers to
consider?

Rich Lindeman 


On 4/5/10 7:10 PM, "Richard Lindeman" <oblchurch at msn.com> wrote:

> 
> In Ephesians 6:5f there truly does appear to be a dignity and nobility that
> St. Paul associates in encouraging FOBOS KAI TROMOS of the slave toward his
> earthly master hWS TWi CRISTWi. And I am not sure if it has more to do with:
> 
> 1. A broader and generally more positive range of meanings connected with the
> Greek word FOBOS as opposed to the much narrower and more negative range of
> meanings associated with the English word "fear" or...
> 2. A specialized usage of FOBOS KAI TROMOS by St. Paul within this context
> that we are unaware of. or
> 3. St. Paul's desire to inspire and uplift the lowly estate of slaves in his
> day and spur them on to the obedience of faith. Or...
> 4. St. Paul's unbounded enthusiasm and focus upon the glory of Christ.
> 
> I suspect that St. Paul did not consult BDAG before writing the epistle.
> However, I'm really not sure how to second guess or bypass the Lexicon in a
> case like this. Perhaps someday new manuscript evidence will appear to cause a
> revision in our understanding of Pauline usage of FOBOS KAI TROMOS in this
> passage.
> 
> Rich Lindeman  
> 
> 
> 
>  
>> thought was
>>   implied in the messages.
>> 
>>  Factors entering into our endeavor to understand  a Bi
> 
>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------
>> 
>> Message: 11
>> Date: Mon, 05 Apr 2010 11:05:01 -0400
>> From: Carl Conrad <cwconrad2 at mac.com>
>> Subject: [B-Greek] How we understand Greek usage (was "Re: FOBOS in
>> Eph 5:6")
>> To: B-Greek <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
>> Message-ID: <A3E23175-13DB-4443-BC4D-18E558C9F922 at mac.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252
>> 
>> I think several have found the thread on FOBOS in Ephesians 5:6 to be of
>> interest, perhaps not solely in terms of the Greek usage but also in terms of
>> our understanding of the emotion and stance of the believer indicated or
>> implied in the choice of words in the text under discussion. I have
>> personally 
>> found the thread interesting especially in what it indicates about the way we
>> approach a question such as that raised originally by Elizabeth about FOBOS
>> or 
>> FOBOS KAI TROMOS as an emotional stance associataed with a slave's
>> subservience to a master hWS TWi CRISTWi. What are the assumptions and
>> methodologies that we bring with us to an endeavor to understand the usage
>> here? I'm not sure that others will find these reflections of interest, but
>> for what it's worth, I found them to be so. I did not myself participate in
>> the thread except in the silly banter over "fear of fear." Where able, I have
>> tried in the summary below to cite succinct statemen blical Greek usage in
>> context
>> 
>> 1.  FOBOS implies a strong feeling, but how strong? Does English ?fear?
>> adequately convey or even suggest the range of feelings that a subordinate
>> should, according to Paul, feel with respect to another or other persons of
>> authority? Commentators on the relevant Pauline texts seem to be reflecting
>> their own culture on this question.
>> 2. Perhaps a minimal sense for FOBOS might be ?respect? or ?reverence? and
>> for 
>> TROMOS a minimal sense might be ?nervousness or hesitancy.? But how can we be
>> confident that these words of Paul SHOULD be understood in this ?minimal?
>> sense?
>> 3. This is one of those instances (they aren?t that infrequent, are they?)
>> where we feel inclined to question the judgment of BDAG and other lexica.
>> That 
>> is not to say that we would want to be without those lexica, but we are often
>> enough aware that they do not really resolve all our questions about the
>> meaning of a word.
>> 4. I think we can agree that an attempt to assess the precise sense of a
>> Greek 
>> word on the basis of how any English word may represent it in one or more
>> contexts is just simply wrong-headed. ? The semantic range must be
>> established 
>> within the source language,? as Iver notes.
>> 5. Even after one has reached a satisfactory resolution of the question of
>> the 
>> meaning of the original word, carrying its meaning over into a target
>> language 
>> is an altogether different matter. ?There are many reasons for a particular
>> translation choice, whether linguistic, cultural or theological, ? writes
>> Iver, ?but ... the concept of fear and its interplay with respect and
>> obedience varies a lot with different cultures.?
>> 6. The Zeitgeist he/she/it is a changing. Notes Elizabeth: ?Several
>> generations ago there would have been no problem in talking about terror as
>> the human response to the holiness of God. C.S. Lewis had on problem with it.
>> Now days it is out style. Lexical semantics in NT studies is sometimes a
>> reflection of contemporary culture.?
>> 7. The question under consideration deserves some reflection and questioning
>> of assumptions. Says Elizabeth, ?Would "reverential respect" generate a
>> physical response (Eph. 6:5 META FOBOU KAI TROMOU ... hWS TWi CRISTWi). It
>> seems to me that physical shaking is not generally associated with reverence.
>> Is Paul indulging in hyperbole??
>> 
>> 
>> Carl W. Conrad
>> Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
>> 
>> 





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