[B-Greek] Mark 7:18-19 & Matthew 15:17

George F Somsel gfsomsel at yahoo.com
Thu Oct 29 15:02:23 EDT 2009


18καὶ λέγει αὐτοῖς·οὕτως καὶ ὑμεῖς ἀσύνετοί ἐστε;οὐ νοεῖτε ὅτι πᾶν τὸ ἔξωθεν εἰσπορευόμενον εἰς τὸν ἄνθρωπον οὐ δύναται αὐτὸν κοινῶσαι 19ὅτι οὐκ εἰσπορεύεται αὐτοῦ εἰς τὴν καρδίαν ἀλλʼ εἰς τὴν κοιλίαν, καὶ εἰς τὸν ἀφεδρῶνα ἐκπορεύεται, καθαρίζων πάντα τὰ βρώματα;
 
18 KAI LEGEI AUTOIS, "hOUTWS KAI hUMEIS ASUNETOI ESTE:  OU NOEITE hOTI PAN TO ECWQEN EISPOREUOMENON EIS TON ANQRWPON OU DUNATAI AUTON KOINWSAI 
19 hOTI OUK EISPOREUETAI AUTOU EIS THN KARDIAN ALL' EIS THN KOILIAN, KAI EIS TON AFEDRWNA EKPOREUETAI, KAQARIZWN PANTA TA BRWMATA?"

It seems what we have here is a case of KATA SUNESIN.  The participle KAQARIZWN as a masc form must refer to the understood subject of LEGEI "He [i.e. Jesus] said."

 george
gfsomsel 


… search for truth, hear truth, 
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defend the truth till death.


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________________________________
From: Nikolaos Adamou <nikolaos.adamou at hotmail.com>
To: bjwvmw at com-pair.net; leonardj at live.com; b-Greek <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Thu, October 29, 2009 11:33:25 AM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Mark 7:18-19 & Matthew 15:17


Ιn Matthew 15:17 we have:
“οὐ νοεῖτε ὅτι πᾶν τὸ εἰσπορευόμενον εἰς τὸ στόμα εἰς τὴν κοιλίαν
χωρεῖ καὶ εἰς ἀφεδρῶνα ἐκβάλλεται;

Ou noeite hoti pan to eisporeuomenon eis to stoma eis tin koilian
xwrei kai eis afedrwna ekballetai?

In Mark 7:18-19 we have:
“18 καὶ λέγει αὐτοῖς·
Οὕτω καὶ ὑμεῖς ἀσύνετοί ἐστε; οὔπω νοεῖτε ὅτι
πᾶν τὸ ἔξωθεν εἰσπορευόμενον εἰς τὸν ἄνθρωπον
οὐ δύναται αὐτὸν κοινῶσαι;
19 ὅτι οὐκ εἰσπορεύεται αὐτοῦ εἰς τὴν καρδίαν, ἀλλὰ
εἰς τὴν κοιλίαν, καὶ εἰς τὸν ἀφεδρῶνα ἐκπορεύεται, καθαρίζον πάντα τὰ βρώματα.”

Kai legei autois; houtw kai umeis asynetoi este? Oupw noeitai hoti pan
to exwthen eisporeuomenon eis ton anthrwpon oy dunatai auton koinwsai?
Hoti ouk eisporeuetai autou eis tin kardian, alla eis tin koilian, kai
eis ton afedrwna ekporeuetai, katharizwn panta ta brwmata.

Καθαρίζον in:

1.  http://apostolic.interlinearbible.org/mark/7.htm 
2.  Stephanus Textus Receptus (1550, with accents)
3.  Byzantine/Majority Text (2000)
4.  Textus Receptus (1894)
5.  Andoniadis(1904)/Greek Orthodox Church

Καθαρίζων in:

1.  Westcott/Hort with Diacritics
2.  Tischendorf 8th Ed. with Diacritics
3.  http://www.codexsinaiticus.org/en/manuscript.aspx?book=34&chapter=7&lid=en&side=r&verse=19&zoomSlider=0 

The participle Καθαρίζων or Καθαρίζον is determined by its subject.
The subject is the phrase “πᾶν τὸ ἔξωθεν εἰσπορευόμενον” and
it is neuter not masculine, thus, the participle is in agreement with
it and it is also neuter, as
Καθαρίζον.

It the correct was Καθαρίζων would require a masculine subject, but
there is not such thing in this sentence.

Sinaiticus codex that follows the masculine form is not free of
similar errors, so all those that follow its tradition.

The statistical majority does not provide evidence of what is correct
and what it is not.

The similar subject phrase is in Matthew “πᾶν τὸ εἰσπορευόμενον εἰς τὸ
στόμα” which is also neuter, non masculine.

If you want to see more clearly focus in the following parts of the
phrase in its affirmative form: “πᾶν τὸ ἔξωθεν εἰσπορευόμενον εἰς τὸν
ἄνθρωπον εἰσπορεύεται εἰς τὴν κοιλίαν, καὶ εἰς τὸν ἀφεδρῶνα
ἐκπορεύεται, καθαρίζον πάντα τὰ βρώματα.”  Which is almost the same of
what Matthew gives in interrogative form “πᾶν τὸ εἰσπορευόμενον εἰς τὸ
στόμα εἰς τὴν κοιλίαν χωρεῖ καὶ εἰς ἀφεδρῶνα ἐκβάλλεται;”

I would be very interest to see Chrysostom's argument in support of
Καθαρίζων.

--
Nikolaos Adamou, Ph.D.
Associate Professor, 
CUNY/BMCC


> From: bjwvmw at com-pair.net
> To: leonardj at live.com; b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 21:46:54 -0800
> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Mark 7:18-19
> 
> Dear Leonard,
> 
> I could be wrong here, but ISTM that KAQARIZON may have been pronounced
> similarly to KAQARIZWN at the time of Mark writing his gospel. There is also
> Metzger's comment in his Textual Commentary on page 95,
> 
>    "The overwhelming weight of manuscript evidence supports the reading of
> KAQARIZWN. The difficulty of construing this word in the sentence (1) prompted
> copyists to attempt various corrections and ameliorations."
> 
>    "(1)    Many modern scholars, following the interpretations suggested by
> Origen and Chrysostom, regard KAQARIZWN as connected grammatically with LEGEI in
> ver. 18, and take it as the evangelist's comment on the implications of Jesus'
> words concerning Jewish dietary laws."
> 
> I would agree with the latter assessment since the parallel passage of Matthew
> 15:10-20 gives a more detailed explanation of what Jesus is saying. This is
> especially true of 16-20 which is a detailed answer to Peter's question in vs.
> 15. It seems that Mark is just summarizing the Matthean passage for his Roman
> audience since Jesus' statement in vss. 18-19 concerns Jewish dietary laws.
> 
> En Xristwi,
> 
> Rev. Bryant J. Williams III
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Leonard Jayawardena" <leonardj at live.com>
> To: <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, October 28, 2009 8:05 PM
> Subject: [B-Greek] Mark 7:18-19
> 
> 
> 
> Mark 7:18-19: KAI LEGEI AUTOIS ... KAQARIZWN PANTA TA BRWMATA.
> 
> There is a variant reading KAQARIZON. If we substituted this for KAQARIZWN, the
> sense would be that the digestive and elimination processes of the body purifies
> the food consumed?
> 
> Leonard Jayawardena
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