[B-Greek] Matthew 26:64 συ ειπας

George F Somsel gfsomsel at yahoo.com
Fri Oct 23 02:07:10 EDT 2009


 λέγει αὐτῷ ὁ Ἰησοῦς·σὺ εἶπας.πλὴν λέγω ὑμῖν·ἀπʼ ἄρτι ὄψεσθε τὸν υἱὸν τοῦ ἀνθρώπουκαθήμενον ἐκ δεξιῶν τῆς δυνάμεως καὶ ἐρχόμενον ἐπὶ τῶν νεφελῶν τοῦ οὐρανοῦ.
LEGEI AUTWi hO IHSOUS, "SU EIPAS, PLHN LEGW hUMIN, 'AP' ARTI OYESQE TON hUION TOU ANQRWPOU KAQHMENON EK DECIWN THS DUNAMEWS KA ERXOMENON EPI NEFELWN TOU OURANOU'."

If, for the sake of discussion, we take πλὴν PLHN as introducing an adversative to the preceding, it seems to me that we have a problem in attempting to explain why in the following verse we read τότε ὁ ἀρχιερεὺς διέρρηξεν τὰ ἱμάτια αὐτοῦ λέγων·ἐβλασφήμησεν·  TOTE hO ARXIEREUS DIERRHCEN TA hIMATIA AUTOU LEGWN, "EBLASFHMHSEN."  Without an understanding that he is thereby equating himself with τὸν υἱὸν τοῦ ἀνθρώπουTON hUION TOU ANQRWPOU and thereby with ὁ χριστὸς ὁ υἱὸς τοῦ θεοῦ hO CRISTOS hO hUIOS TOU QEOU, the High Priest's reaction is without foundation.

george
gfsomsel 


… search for truth, hear truth, 
learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth, 
defend the truth till death.


- Jan Hus
_________ 




________________________________
From: Donald Cobb <docobb at orange.fr>
To: George F Somsel <gfsomsel at yahoo.com>
Cc: James Ernest <jdernest at alum.bu.edu>; Cornell Machiavelli <cornellmachiavelli at yahoo.com>; b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
Sent: Thu, October 22, 2009 10:36:27 PM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Matthew 26:64 συ ειπας

Obviously, George's statement assumes that Matthew's and Luke's direct source is the Gospel of Mark, certainly the majority opinion (two source theory), but which 1) can and is questioned by many and 2) shouldn't determine ipso facto the way we understand the Greek. I think it's striking that, despite the fact we are told this is unambiguous in Greek, the examples produced (cf. Elizabeth Kline's last messages) are neither numerous nor directly relevant. This suggests that Jesus' answer is perhaps not as unambiguous as one might affirm, or as Mark has tried to make it.

It's almost impossible to answer the question without getting into questions of interpretation. I note, however, that Jesus in the Synoptics never uses the title XRISTOS as an explicit self designation, presumably because of the inevitable militaristic connotations that attached to it at the time. He did, however, clearly use the "the the Son of Man" imagery in Daniel 7.

It seems to me that what looks like an ambiguous statement in Mt 26 could well be just that. Jesus is throwing back at Caiaphas what he has just said. (note that in the Gospels Jesus is arrested for messianic pretentions, something that he apparently never explicitly claimed about himself; doesn't that in itself add up to a tacit avowal of messiahship?) Jesus then redefines messiahship in the terms he habitually uses, in connection with Dn 7: "However (PLHN), I say to you" (vindication by the Ancien of Days and not by men or military victory). He then, tantalizingly, pushes the envelope further by partially quoting Ps 110 ("seated at the right hand"), a clearly messianic psalm but one in which, again, God himself is the one who does the vindicating.

In Luke's interpretation (Lk 22:68-69), Jesus' answer is thoroughly ambiguous, as is, I would say, Matthew's as well. I personally think that Mark is working with the same traditions as the two others, but disambiguates the statement in order to show that Jesus is indeed the Christ.

There are huge assumptions in just about everything I've said, and I'm well into the realm of interpretation. My apologies. Perhaps, though, it does help answer Cornell's question.

Donald Cobb
Aix-en-Provence, France




George F Somsel a écrit : 
While each text must be understood on its own terms, I hardly think that a text which used Mark which unambiguously has Jesus say ἐγώεἰμι [EGW EIMI] would thus contradict his source by having Jesus deny what he there affirmed.
> george
>gfsomsel 
>
>
>… search for truth, hear truth, 
>learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth, 
>defend the truth till death.
>
>
>- Jan Hus
>_________ 
>
>
>
>----- Original Message ----
>From: James Ernest <jdernest at alum.bu.edu>
>To: Cornell Machiavelli <cornellmachiavelli at yahoo.com>
>Cc: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
>Sent: Thu, October 22, 2009 7:12:56 PM
>Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Matthew 26:64 συ ειπας
>
>  
>Does the use of πλην shortly thereafter help us determine the contrast
>>    
>between the answer (first clause) and the following clause? In fact, why the
>use of PLHN here?
>Charles Talbert's commentary on Matthew in the Paideia series (sorry, not
>yet published) says that in Matt 26:11 this phrase gives a negative answer;
>if it had been an unambiguous "yes," Pilate would have then pronounced
>sentence immediately. He didn't. So the wording itself is noncommittal; but
>Pilate takes it as a no.
>
>So at 26:64 (getting now to CT's take on PLHN):
>
>So, in Matt 26:64 Jesus’ answer to the high priest must be understood as a
>negative followed by a clarification of his identity in transcendent terms
>(cf. the same tactic in John 18:36).
>
>
>James Ernest
>
>
>
>------------------------------
>James D. Ernest, PhD, Editor
>Baker Academic & Brazos Press
>jernest at BakerPublishingGroup.com / http://www.BakerPublishingGroup.com
>------------------------------
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