[B-Greek] Genre & Grounding

George F Somsel gfsomsel at yahoo.com
Sat Oct 17 08:48:18 EDT 2009


It isn't quite so clear as you might think.  Consider also BDAG's entry 

  
⑤marker denoting temporal sequence,from
ⓐof the time when someth.begins from, from … on, for,etc. ἐκ κοιλίας μητρός EK KOILIAS MHTROSfrom birth(Ps 21:11; 70:6; Is 49:1) Mt 19:12al.; also ἐκ γενετῆς EK GENETHS J 9:1(since Il.24, 535; Od. 18, 6; s. also γενετή GENETH). ἐκ νεότητος EK NEOTHTOS (since Il.14, 86; Ps 70:5; Sir 7:23; Wsd 8:2; 1 Macc 2:66; JosAs17:4) Mk 10:20; Lk 18:21.ἐξ ἱκανῶν χρόνων EC hIKANWN XRONON for a long time23:8.ἐκ πολλῶν χρόνων EK POLLWN XRONWN a long time before1 Cl42:5(cp.Epict. 2, 16, 17 ἐκ πολλοῦ χρόνου EK POLLOU XRONOU. Cp. ἐκ πολλοῦ EK POLLOU Thu. 1, 68, 3; 2, 88, 2; ἐξ ὀλίγων ἡμερῶν EC OLIGWN hHMERWN Lysias, Epitaph. 1). ἐκ γενεῶν ἀρχαίων EK GENEWN ARXAIWN Ac 15:21(cp.X., Hell. 6, 1, 4 ἐκ πάντων προγόνων EK PANTWN PROGONWN). ἐκ τ. αἰῶνος EK T. AIWNOV since the world beganJ 9:32(cp.ἐξ
 αἰῶνος EC AIWNOS Sext. Emp., Adv. Math. 9, 76; Diod S4, 83, 3; Aelian, VH 6, 13; 12, 64; OGI669, 61; Sir 1:4; 1 Esdr 2:17,21; Jos., Bell. 5, 442). ἐξ ἐτῶν ὀκτώ EC ETWN OKTW for eight yearsAc 9:33; cp.24:10.ἐξ ἀρχῆς EC ARXHS (PTebt40, 20 [117 b.c.]; Sir 15:14; 39:32; Jos., C. Ap. 1, 225; Ath.8, 1) J 6:64.ἐκ παιδιόθεν EK PAIDIOQEN fr.childhoodMk 9:21(s. παιδιόθεν PAIDIOQEN. Just., A I, 15, 6 ἐκ παίδων EK PAIDWN. On the use of ἐκ EK w. an adv.cp.ἐκ τότε EK TOTE POxy486 [II a.d.]; ἐκ πρωίθεν EK PRWIQEN 1 Macc 10:80).
ⓑof temporal sequence
α.ἡμέραν ἐξ ἡμέρας  EC hHMERAS day after day2 Pt 2:8; 2 Cl11:2(cp.Ps.-Eur., Rhes. 445; Henioch. Com.5:13 K.; Theocr. 18, 35; Gen 39:10; Num 30:15; Sir 5:7; Esth 3:7; En98:8; 103:10).
β.ἐκ δευτέρου EK DEUTEROU for the second time, again,s. δεύτερος DEUTEROS 2. ἐκ τρίτου EK TRITOU Mt 26:44(ParJer7:8; cp.PHolm1, 32 ἐκ τετάρτου EK TETARTOU).
 
Arndt, W., Danker, F. W., & Bauer, W. (2000). A Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament and other early Christian literature. (3rd ed.) (s.v. ἐκ EK p. 297). Chicago: University of Chicago Press.
 george
gfsomsel 


… search for truth, hear truth, 
learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth, 
defend the truth till death.


- Jan Hus
_________ 



----- Original Message ----
From: Iver Larsen <iver_larsen at sil.org>
To: Elizabeth Kline <kline_dekooning at earthlink.net>; greek B-Greek <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Fri, October 16, 2009 11:21:26 PM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Genre & Grounding

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Elizabeth Kline" <kline_dekooning at earthlink.net>
To: "greek B-Greek" <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: 17. oktober 2009 00:28
Subject: [B-Greek] Genre & Grounding


>
> John 19:12 ἐκ τούτου ὁ Πιλᾶτος ἐζήτει
> ἀπολῦσαι αὐτόν· οἱ δὲ Ἰουδαῖοι
> ἐκραύγασαν λέγοντες· ἐὰν τοῦτον
> ἀπολύσῃς, οὐκ εἶ φίλος τοῦ
> Καίσαρος· πᾶς ὁ βασιλέα ἑαυτὸν
> ποιῶν ἀντιλέγει τῷ Καίσαρι.
> .
> JOHN 19:12 EK TOUTOU hO PILATOS EZHTEI APOLUSAI AUTON· hOI DE IOUDAIOI
> EKRAUGASAN LEGONTES· EAN TOUTON APOLUSHiS, OUK EI FILOS TOU KAISAROS·
> PAS hO BASILEA hEAUTON POIWN ANTILEGEI TWi KAISARI.

> How should we read  EK TOUTOU in EK TOUTOU hO PILATOS EZHTEI APOLUSAI
> AUTON? Is EK TOUTOU temporal or causal? Why?

IMO, it is clearly causal. hOUTOS is normally anaphoric unless the context 
indicates that it is kataphoric. Here it refers back to the answer that Jesus 
just gave. EK TOUTOU is "based on this thing", and the thing must be the 
preceding answer.

Both BAGD and L&N give the time option for EK although not for this passage. L&N 
suggests "since" and BAGD suggests: "5. of time—a. of the time when someth. 
begins from.." However, if you look at their citations, the time sense does not 
come from EK in itself but from the head noun which in all cases refers to an 
event at a specific time or a specific time reference. I don't think EK TOUTOU 
in and of itself can refer to time. At least I did not find any of the EK TOUTOU 
examples in the GNT or the LXX to refer to time. In my view, this is one of the 
problems with most dictionaries. They put too much of the meaning into the 
lexical item itself and too little into exploring how much of the sense comes 
from the adjacent words. In order not to be too hard on BAGD, I should add that 
they list John 19:12 under 3f: "EK TOUTOU - for this reason, therefore (Dit., 
Syll.3 1168, 47; 1169, 18; 44; 62f; BGU 423, 17) J 6:66; 19:12." Similarly, L&N 
lists John 19:12 under "markers of cause or reason, with focus upon the source - 
‘because of.’"

EK TOUTOU is found two other places in the GNT:

John 6:66 Ἐκ τούτου πολλοὶ [ἐκ] τῶν μαθητῶν αὐτοῦ ἀπῆλθον εἰς τὰ ὀπίσω καὶ 
οὐκέτι μετ᾽ αὐτοῦ περιεπάτουν.
EK TOUTOU POLLOI [EK] TWN MAQHTWN AUTOU APHLQON EIS TA OPISW KAI OUKETI MET' 
AUTOU PERIEPATOUN.

EK TOUTOU is again "based on the preceding incident". Because of what had 
happened and especially what Jesus said, many of his disciples decided to leave. 
The time idea in English versions goes back to KJV which mistakenly added [time] 
in brackets here. This is then followed by translations more or less dependent 
on the KJV like RSV, NIV, LB=NLT, ESV. Other translations have correctly 
rendered it "As a result of this", e.g. NASB, GNB, CEV and GW.

The other place is 1 John 4:6:
ἐκ τούτου γινώσκομεν τὸ πνεῦμα τῆς ἀληθείας καὶ τὸ πνεῦμα τῆς πλάνης.
EK TOUTOU GINWSKOMEN TO PNEUMA THS ALHQEIAS KAI TO PNEUMA THS PLANHS.

Here, no translation suggests a time reference. The meaning is again "based on 
the foregoing" and it comes across in many translations as "this is how..", 
"that is how" or "by this". GNB has mistakenly added a "then" as a remnant of 
the time idea.

> John 20:20 καὶ τοῦτο εἰπὼν ἔδειξεν τὰς
> χεῖρας καὶ τὴν πλευρὰν αὐτοῖς.
> ἐχάρησαν οὖν οἱ μαθηταὶ ἰδόντες
> τὸν κύριον.
> .
> JOHN 20:20 KAI TOUTO EIPWN EDEIXEN TAS CEIRAS KAI THN PLEURAN AUTOIS.
> ECARHSAN OUN hOI MAQHTAI IDONTES TON KURION.
>
> Same question for IDONTES in hOI MAQHTAI IDONTES TON KURION,  temporal
> or causal? Why?

In itself the participle can go either way. Because of the main verb, I would 
say it gives the cause for their happiness.

Iver Larsen 

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