[B-Greek] Synonym study

Bryant J. Williams III bjwvmw at com-pair.net
Tue Oct 13 17:46:01 EDT 2009


Dear Iver, Randall,

[Iver said],
So, I am still wondering if there is a semantic difference in the present tense
forms of the two verbs, granted that they correspond to the same Hebrew word.
For instance, we find  MIMNHSKESQAI in Isa 12:4, 48:1 and 62:6, while we find
MNHMONEUEIN in Isa 43:18. Is it just variation, or did the translator choose a
different word because of the different contexts? The first 3 has the Hebrew
word in hifil and the last one in qal. It looks like a systematic correspondence
in the LXX, but I did find one exception to this, namely Psa 8:5(4).
For Isa 12:4, 48:1 and 62:6, the KJV translates as "make mention" and the LXX
with MIMNHSKESQAI, while in Isa 43:18 KJV has "remember" and LXX has
MNHMONEUEIN.
In Psa 8:4/5 KJV has "be mindful" and LXX has MIMNHSKESQAI.
In Psa 6:5/6 NIV has "remember" and LXX MNHMONEUEIN.

[Bryant]
Could it be that MIMNHiSKOMAI is a true Middle/Passive corresponding to the
Hifil in Hebrew? The Hifil has a causative sense, while the Qal has an active
sense. ISTM that what would be going on is this difference.

Rev. Bryant J. Williams III
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Iver Larsen" <iver_larsen at sil.org>
To: "Randall Buth" <randallbuth at gmail.com>
Cc: "B Greek" <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 10:05 AM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Synonym study


> RB:
> I didn't follow your comment or data.
> Actually, MNHSQHNAI (aorist) is used about 185 times in the LXX
> MEMNHSQAI (perfect) 10 xx in LXX, and
> MIMNHSKESQAI (present system) 7xx (and never in imperfect).
>
> Against this,
> MNHMONEYSAI (aorist) is used once in the LXX (2Sam14:11, where an
> active sense is invoked)
> EMNHMONEYKENAI (perfect) is used zero 0 in LXX, and
> MNHMONEYEIN (present+imperfect system)  19 in LXX
>
> ERRWSO
> Randall
>
> IL: Thanks for the correction. There was a problem with my search method. I
had
> not noticed that in my NT database, the base form was given as μιμνῄσκω
> MIMNHiSKW, while in my LXX database, the base form was given as μιμνήσκω
> MIMNHSKW.
> I can see that there doesn't seem to be any choice for the aorist, but both
are
> used in present. I got 21 present tense forms of MNHMONEUEIN in the LXX and 2
> imperfects, but my database may include more or different books than yours.
> So, I am still wondering if there is a semantic difference in the present
tense
> forms of the two verbs, granted that they correspond to the same Hebrew word.
> For instance, we find  MIMNHSKESQAI in Isa 12:4, 48:1 and 62:6, while we find
> MNHMONEUEIN in Isa 43:18. Is it just variation, or did the translator choose a
> different word because of the different contexts? The first 3 has the Hebrew
> word in hifil and the last one in qal. It looks like a systematic
correspondence
> in the LXX, but I did find one exception to this, namely Psa 8:5(4).
> For Isa 12:4, 48:1 and 62:6, the KJV translates as "make mention" and the LXX
> with MIMNHSKESQAI, while in Isa 43:18 KJV has "remember" and LXX has
> MNHMONEUEIN.
> In Psa 8:4/5 KJV has "be mindful" and LXX has MIMNHSKESQAI.
> In Psa 6:5/6 NIV has "remember" and LXX MNHMONEUEIN.
>
> What do you think of this? Is it possible that MNHMONEUEIN originally meant
> something like "keep in mind, remember" and MIMNHSKESQAI more like "come or
> bring to mind", and that this difference disappeared in the aorist forms or
> maybe was never there in the aorist? After all, BAGD suggests "remember, keep
in
> mind, think of" for MNHMONEUW and "recall to mind, make mention" (among other
> glosses) for MIMNHiSKOMAI.
>
> It all started by Oun's question from Heb 13:3 and 7 where verse 3 has the
> present imperative MIMNHiSKESQE and verse 7 the present imperative
MNHMONEUETE:
>
> 13:3 μιμνῄσκεσθε τῶν δεσμίων ὡς συνδεδεμένοι
> MIMNHiSKESQE TWN DESMIWN hWS SUNDEDEMENOI
>
> 13:7 Μνημονεύετε τῶν ἡγουμένων ὑμῶν
> MNHMONEUETE TWN hHGOUMENWN hUMWN
>
> The context would allow for "bring to mind" for v. 3 and "keep/retain in mind"
> for v. 7. English versions do not seem to make a distinction (nor would Hebrew
> apparently), but we used two different words in our Danish translation in
verse
> 3 and 7, not because I had studied the two different Greek words, but because
of
> context. If we use the negative form "don't forget", the distinction
disappears
> and we could use the same in both verses.
>
> Iver Larsen
>
> ---
> B-Greek home page: http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek
> B-Greek mailing list
> B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> http://lists.ibiblio.org/mailman/listinfo/b-greek
>


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