[B-Greek] Rom 10:3

John Wilking jcwilking at yahoo.com
Mon Oct 12 15:41:48 EDT 2009


Carl,

I just noticed the first textual variant for STHSHTE in Mk 7:9 is THRHSHTE.  Are you aware of any evidence that would indicate whether this is somewhat synonymous with hISTHMI or possibly just a different idea?

John


--- On Mon, 10/12/09, John Wilking <jcwilking at yahoo.com> wrote:

From: John Wilking <jcwilking at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Rom 10:3
To: "Carl Conrad" <cwconrad2 at mac.com>
Cc: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
Date: Monday, October 12, 2009, 12:08 PM


Carl,

A difficulty with #3 is that it has a mix of different sense meanings.  Hb 10:9 looks like a parallel, TOTE EIRHKEN, IDOU hHKW TOU POIHSAI TO QELHMA SOU. ANAIPEI TO PRWTON hINA TO DEUTERON STHSHi, in that DEUTERON seems to be a reference to the abstract noun phrase TO QELHMA SOU, just as Rom 10:3 joins STHSAI with the abstract THN IDIAN DIKAIOSUNHN.  An added benefit is that it provides us with a possible antonym, AVAIREW.

However, Ac 7:60, KURIE, MH STHSHiS AUTOIS TAUTHN THN hAMAPTIAN, doesn't seem to have the same sense, possibly due to the presence of AUTOIS.

Your example of Mk 7:9, though it is under #4 in BDAG, also seems to be a good equivalent since it joins a similar kind of noun, THN PARADOSIN hUMWN, to STHSHTE.

John  

--- On Sun, 10/11/09, Carl Conrad <cwconrad2 at mac.com>
 wrote:

From: Carl Conrad <cwconrad2 at mac.com>
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Rom 10:3
To: "John Wilking" <jcwilking at yahoo.com>
Cc: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
Date: Sunday, October 11, 2009, 8:52 PM


On Oct 11, 2009, at 8:50 PM, Carl Conrad wrote:

>
> On Oct 11, 2009, at 7:19 PM, John Wilking wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> --- On Sun, 10/11/09, Carl Conrad <cwconrad2 at mac.com> wrote:
>>
>> From: Carl Conrad <cwconrad2 at mac.com>
>> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Rom 10:3
>> To: "John Wilking" <jcwilking at yahoo.com>
>> Cc: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
>> Date: Sunday, October 11, 2009, 12:10 PM
>>
>>
>> On Oct 11, 2009, at 10:05 AM, John Wilking wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I'm trying to make sense of KAI THN IDIAN ZHTOUNTES STHSAI.  If we
>>> pick up DIKAIOSUNHN from the previous clause we are left with
>>> STHSAI THN IDIAN DIKAIOSUNHN.  Does something like this occur
>>> elsewhere?
>>
>> The full text: Rom. 10:3 ἀγνοοῦντες γὰρ τὴν
>> τοῦ θεοῦ δικαιοσύνην καὶ τὴν ἰδίαν
>> [δικαιοσύνην] ζητοῦντες στῆσαι, τῇ
>> δικαιοσύνῃ τοῦ θεοῦ
 οὐχ
>> ὑπετάγησαν. [AGNOOUNTES GAR THN TOU QEOU DIKAIOSUNHN KAI
>> THN IDIAN [DIKAIOSUNHN] ZHTOUNTES STHSAI, THi DIKAIOSUNHi TOU QEOU
>> OUC hUPETAGHSAN. ]
>>
>> It's not altogether clear what it is you are asking. Is it, "What
>> does STHSAI THN IDIAN DIKAIOSUNHN mean?" I'd say that the sense is
>> something like "set up their own notion of what is fair" or "set up
>> their own notion of what is right." Paul Tillich once suggested a
>> trichotomy of "autonomy," "heteronomy," and "theonomy." In terms of
>> that
>> STHSAI THN IDIAN DIKAIOSUNHN might be equivalent to Tillich's term
>> "autonomy," which I take to mean observance of principles that one
>> chooses for him or herself rather than abiding by principles
>> proposed by God.
>>
>> The nearest equivalent
>>
>>
>>
 JCW  Or instances of similar structure that use different abstract
>> nouns as a way of getting a handle on the semantics of the verb
>> hISTHMI.  For example, does something like STHSAI THN IDIAN KPISIN
>> occur anywhere?
>
> There is no other instance than the text I cited, Mark 7:9. As for
> STHSAI, I think that BDAG s.v. hISTHMI #2 is right on target here:

That should be BDAG s.v. hISTHMI #3

> this is a figurative extension of the literal sense, "cause to be in a
> place or position."
>
>> to the phrase in question that I find in the GNT is Mark 7:9 καὶ
>> ἔλεγεν αὐτοῖς· καλῶς ἀθετεῖτε τὴν
>> ἐντολὴν τοῦ θεοῦ, ἵνα τὴν
>> παράδοσιν ὑμῶν στήσητε. [KAI ELEGEN AUTOIS·
>> KALWS AQETEITE THN ENTOLHN TOU QEOU, hINA THN PARADOSIN
 hUMWN
>> STHSHTE. ], something like, "You've got a neat way of nullifying
>> God's commandment so as to put your own tradition in place."
>
>
> Carl W. Conrad
> Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
>
>
>
> ---
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