[B-Greek] Greek-Hebrew Psalms Mapping (was Making Sense of the Septuagint)

Ian W Scott iscott at tyndale.ca
Sun Oct 4 16:30:30 EDT 2009


Yes, BibleWorks and Accordance will do the same thing.

Ian

George F Somsel wrote:
> You can make it easy on yourself and buy the LXX and the NA27 in the Logos edition then link the two together.  The LXX will always parallel the MT.  This can probably be done with other electronic bible programs as well, but I am not familiar with them.
>  george
> gfsomsel 
>
>
> … search for truth, hear truth, 
> learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth, 
> defend the truth till death.
>
>
> - Jan Hus
> _________ 
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Louis Sorenson <llsorenson at hotmail.com>
> To: B-Greek List mail to all <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
> Sent: Sunday, October 4, 2009 11:16:52 AM
> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Greek-Hebrew Psalms Mapping (was Making Sense of the Septuagint)
>
>
> I just went through a painful experience lining up the quotations
> in Hebrews to the Psalms.  The UBS4 edition gives the MT references
> - which was at first surprising; The author of Hebrews did not have
> the Masoritic text in front of him. But the UBS has a standards issue.
> Most of the verse lining up in the Psalms, once you get the chapter pegged right,
> is because the MT and Protestant versions separate the title
> and occasion out as headings. Though even this varies. The Greek often
> includes them as a separate verse(s), usually v1-2. So check one or two
> verses ahead in the Greek for the comparative Hebrew/English Text. 
>
> Rahlfs also has an insert which helps one line up the comparable MT
> pasages.
>
> The NETS is the only English text version that follows Rahlf's order 
> (if that is your Greek text). Brenton's translation follows the 
> chapter and verse order of the Complutensian Polyglott(I believe)
> which is the order of the Protestant OT. 
>
> Most of the NETS is available freely online thanks to Oxford UP and IOSCS, 
> http://ccat.sas.upenn.edu/nets/edition/
>
> Fields Hexapla was helpful. It can be found online. 
> Origen's Hexapla by Fields
> http://patrologia.narod.ru/biblia/hexapla/  You will need to download the 
> Dejavu (sp) viewer to use it.
>
> Some online Psalms with Greek reading aids can be found at http://www.letsreadgreek.com/psalms
> There is even audio in a restored Koine pronunciation, which can also be downloaded from
> http://www.letsreadgreek.org/psalms/audio/
>
> Louis Sorenson
>
>
>
> .....
> Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2009 11:41:49 -0400
> From: Albert Pietersma <albert.pietersma at sympatico.ca>
> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Greek-Hebrew Psalms Mapping (was Making Sense
>     of the    Septuagint)
> To: Tom Moore <tom at katabiblon.com>
> Cc: B- Greek <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
> Message-ID: <BLU0-SMTP839C1E8950E217133728DFF3D00 at phx.gbl>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=WINDOWS-1252; format=flowed;
>     delsp=yes
>
> On the issue of Hebrew-Greek (LXX) verse/chapter correspondence a  
> number of useful remarks have already been made. Differences in  
> reference, for whatever reason, are a reality. Almost always, however,  
> text editions include cross references. Since Stephen knows Greek,  
> though no Hebrew, in order to find that LXX Ps 32 is MT Ps 33 all he  
> has to do is to turn to LXX Ps 32 in either Rahlfs Psalmi cum Odis  
> (1931) or to his manual edition (1935) where in both cases the MT  
> equivalent is given as the first item in the apparatus. Starting with  
> the Hebrew side of the equation makes matters perhaps slightly more  
> complex, but again the apparatus of Ps 33(LXX)alerts the reader to the  
> fact LXX Ps 33 is Ps 34 in MT (therefore again one up from the LXX).
> Should one want to start with an English translation of the Greek,  
> NETS comes to the rescue, since it gives the corresponding references  
> in the NRSV, which in turn regularly gives the Hebrew numbering. There  
> is, however, a caveat here, since the NRSV at times adopts the  
> numbering of the Greek and therefore at times DOES NOT follow the  
> numbering of the Hebrew. Since NETS (a translation of the Greek) aims  
> to be synoptic with NRSV (a translation of the Hebrew) in such cases  
> NETS cannot feature a dual reference.
> Lastly, for the Psalms there is of course also John Kohlenberger's A  
> Comparative Psalter (OUP 2007)
> I'll address Stephen's second point in a separate note.
> Al
>
> On Oct 4, 2009, at 12:05 AM, Tom Moore wrote:
>
>   
>> Stephen,
>>
>> Here's a chapter mapping:
>>
>> Gk. Psalm 1-8 = Heb. Psalm 1-8
>>
>> Gk. Psalm 9 = Heb. Psalm 9-10
>> Gk. Psalm 10-112 = Heb. Psalm 11-113
>> Gk. Psalm 113 = Heb. Psalm 114-115
>> Gk. Psalm 114-115 = Heb. Psalm 116
>> Gk. Psalm 116-145 = Heb. Psalm 117-146
>> Gk. Psalm 146-147 = Heb. Psalm 147
>>
>> Gk. Psalm 148-150 = Heb. Psalm 148-150
>> Gk. Psalm 151 = unique
>>
>> In some chapters, the verses are also misaligned.
>>
>> The Kata Biblon site maps the LXX to a Masoretic translation, so for  
>> quick reference you can look up a chapter there to see how it aligns  
>> with the tradition Psalm numbering:
>>
>> http://en.katabiblon.com/us/index.php?text=LXX&book=Ps&ch=32
>>
>> Regards,
>> Tom Moore
>>
>>
>>     
>>> -------Original Message-------
>>> From: Stephen Baldwin <stbaldwi at hotmail.com>
>>> Subject: [B-Greek] Making Sense of the Septuagint
>>> Sent: Oct 03 '09 21:14
>>>
>>>
>>> Ladies and Gentlemen:
>>> This may be another opportunity to parade glorious ignorance but  
>>> here goes...
>>>
>>> 1. Are there any methods/aids out there for "mapping" a modern  
>>> [English] translation to the LXX? For example, I was reading Ps33:6  
>>> [NIV] and wanted to read the corresponding verse in the LXX. As  
>>> often seems to be the case, Ps33:6 LXX is not Ps33:6 NIV. The  
>>> corresponding LXX Psalm is 32:6 -- at least it looks more like  
>>> Ps33:6 [NIV] than Ps33:6[LXX] does. This type of occurrence has  
>>> happened several times and I am no longer surprised but go on a  
>>> little hunt in the preceding and following chapters looking for the  
>>> relevant verse. Is there a better way of getting to the desired  
>>> verse?
>>>
>>> 2. Using the same reference, the NIV is:
>>>   6 By the word of the LORD were the heavens made,
>>>         their starry host by the breath of his mouth.
>>>
>>> LXX 32:6 TWi LOGWi TOU KURIOU hOI OURANOI ESTEREWQHSAN
>>> KAI TWi PNEUMATI TOU STOMATOS AUTOU PASA hH DUNAMIS AUTWN
>>>
>>> To the best of my knowledge, the LXX knows nothing of starry hosts...
>>> or is there a nuance to DUNAMIS that has passed me by?
>>>
>>> I am aware of the corresponding histories of modern versions and  
>>> the LXX but of course when one encounters these word differences  
>>> the inquisitive mind wants to know more. Is it just a case of  
>>> shrugging it off or are there resources out there that discuss  
>>> systematically these differences?
>>>
>>> Rgds
>>> Steve
>>>
>>> Stephen Baldwin
>>> stbaldwi at hotmail.com
>>>
>>>                                           
>>>       
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-- 

Ian W. Scott

Associate Professor of New Testament

Tyndale Seminary

Toronto, Ontario, Canada

iscott at tyndale.ca <mailto:iscott at tyndale.ca>

http://www.ian-w-scott.com

===================================================

/Paul's Way of Knowing: Story, Experience and the Spirit /(WUNT II.206; 
Grand Rapids: Baker Academic, 2008). 
<http://www.tyndale.ca/%7Eiscott/blog/essays-and-articles/>

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