[B-Greek] Meaning/application of TO AUTO ("the same") in 1 Cor 10:3-4
kline_dekooning at earthlink.net
Sat Oct 3 14:36:09 EDT 2009
> Yes, there is a Greek translational meaning and syntax/grammar
> question in there!
> My Greek question is whether the vocabulary or syntax Paul is using
> in 1 Cor 10:3-4, and in the context of 1 Cor 10 (as wall as 8-14)
> precludes TO AUTO perhaps also meaning that Paul is saying that the
> Israelites partook of "the same" spiritual/Spirit-provided food as
> the Corinthian Christians do at the Lord's Table.
> As I said, the default understanding to me would be that Paul is
> saying that ALL the Israelites ate "the same" thing, and not that
> what they at that time ate and drank was in a sense (real or
> typologically) "the same" thing that Christians now partake of and
> partake in during at the Lord's Table.
> But because I think this second meaning is possible, I wanted to
> know if the way Paul says this in the Greek precludes such an
> alternate or additional understanding of the meaning of TO AUTO here.
1Cor. 10:1 Οὐ θέλω γὰρ ὑμᾶς ἀγνοεῖν,
ἀδελφοί, ὅτι οἱ πατέρες ἡμῶν
πάντες ὑπὸ τὴν νεφέλην ἦσαν καὶ
πάντες διὰ τῆς θαλάσσης διῆλθον 2
καὶ πάντες εἰς τὸν Μωϋσῆν
ἐβαπτίσθησαν ἐν τῇ νεφέλῃ καὶ ἐν
τῇ θαλάσσῃ 3 καὶ πάντες τὸ αὐτὸ
πνευματικὸν βρῶμα ἔφαγον 4 καὶ
πάντες τὸ αὐτὸ πνευματικὸν ἔπιον
πόμα· ἔπινον γὰρ ἐκ πνευματικῆς
ἀκολουθούσης πέτρας, ἡ πέτρα δὲ ἦν
ὁ Χριστός. 5 Ἀλλ᾿ οὐκ ἐν τοῖς
πλείοσιν αὐτῶν εὐδόκησεν ὁ θεός,
κατεστρώθησαν γὰρ ἐν τῇ ἐρήμῳ.
1COR. 10:1 OU QELW GAR hUMAS AGNOEIN, ADELFOI, hOTI hOI PATERES hHMWN
PANTES hUPO THN NEFELHN HSAN KAI PANTES DIA THS QALASSHS DIHLQON 2 KAI
PANTES EIS TON MWUSHN EBAPTISQHSAN EN THi NEFELHi KAI EN THi QALASSHi
3 KAI PANTES TO AUTO PNEUMATIKON BRWMA EFAGON 4 KAI PANTES TO AUTO
PNEUMATIKON EPION POMA· EPINON GAR EK PNEUMATIKHS AKOLOUQOUSHS PETRAS,
hH PETRA DE HN hO CRISTOS. 5 ALL᾿ OUK EN TOIS PLEIOSIN AUTWN
EUDOKHSEN hO QEOS, KATESTRWQHSAN GAR EN THi ERHMWi
I agree with Fee that Calvin's reading (i.e., your suggestion) is
foreign to Paul's argument. The repetition of PANTES in 1Cor 10:1-4
and the use of AUTO serve as rhetorical underlining. The PATERES
PANTES experienced the supernatural blessings of deliverance, guidance
and sustenance. They *all* were sustained by the *same* PNEUMATIKON
BRWMA and *same* PNEUMATIKON POMA. PANTES and AUTO are similar in that
they place emphasis on the corporate nature of the supernatural
blessings experienced during the exodus and forty years of wilderness
wandering. The *same* AUTO blessings were extended to *all* PANTES,
but only a hand full came into the promise land. The common experience
of supernatural blessings did not shield them from divine wrath when
they committed idolatry. That is the *main* point of the typology
which will lead Paul into his discourse on spiritual gifts and the
One problem with this simple reading is how to fit v4b EPINON GAR ...
hO CRISTOS into the argument.
Does the the vocabulary or syntax rule out Calvin's reading? I doubt
that the question you raised can be answered with syntax and
vocabulary. On the other hand, the discourse structure seems to point
in a different direction.
 1Cor NICNT 1987 p.446 n28
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