[B-Greek] Meaning/application of TO AUTO ("the same") in 1 Cor 10:3-4

George F Somsel gfsomsel at yahoo.com
Fri Oct 2 18:28:25 EDT 2009


Is there a Greek question buried in there somewhere?
 george
gfsomsel 


… search for truth, hear truth, 
learn truth, love truth, speak the truth, hold the truth, 
defend the truth till death.


- Jan Hus
_________ 



----- Original Message ----
From: Eric S. Weiss <papaweiss1 at yahoo.com>
To: b-greek <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Friday, October 2, 2009 5:51:35 AM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Meaning/application of TO AUTO ("the same") in 1 Cor 10:3-4

For easy reference, here is the transliterated text of the passage I'm inquiring about (1 Cor 10:1-11):
 
1 OU QELW GAR hUMAS AGNOEIN, ADELFOI, hOTI hOI PATERES 
hHMWN PANTES hUPO THN NEFELHN HSAN KAI PANTES DIA THS 
QALASSHS DIHLQON, 
2 KAI PANTES EIS TON MWUSHN EBAPTISQHSAN EN THi NEFELHi KAI 
EN THi QALASSHi, 
3 KAI PANTES TO AUTO PNEUMATIKON BRWMA EFAGON, 
4 KAI PANTES TO AUTO PNEUMATIKON EPION POMA: EPINON GAR EK 
PNEUMATIKHS AKOLOUQOUSHS PETRAS: hH PETRA DE hHN hO 
CRISTOS. 
5 ALL OUK EN TOIS PLEIOSIN AUTWN EUDOKHSEN hO QEOS, 
KATESTRWQHSAN GAR EN THi ERHMWi. 
6 TAUTA DE TUPOI hHMWN EGENHQHSAN, EIS TO MH EINAI hHMAS 
EPIQUMHTAS KAKWN, KAQWS KAKEINOI EPEQUMHSAN. 
7 MHDE EIDWLOLATRAI GINESQE, KAQWS TINES AUTWN: hWSPER 
GEGRAPTAI, EKAQISEN hO LAOS FAGEIN KAI PEIN, KAI ANESTHSAN 
PAIZEIN. 
8 MHDE PORNEUWMEN, KAQWS TINES AUTWN EPORNEUSAN, KAI 
EPESAN MIAi HMERAi EIKOSI TREIS CILIADES. 
9 MHDE EKPEIRAZWMEN TON CRISTON, KAQWS TINES AUTWN 
EPEIRASAN, KAI hUPO TWN OFEWN APWLLUNTO. 
10 MHDE GOGGUZETE, KAQAPER TINES AUTWN EGOGGUSAN, KAI 
APWLONTO hUPO TOU OLOQREUTOU. 
11 TAUTA DE TUPIKWS SUNEBAINEN EKEINOIS, EGRAFH DE PROS 
NOUQESIAN hHMWN, EIS hOUS TA TELH TWN AIWNWN KATHNTHKEN.
 
- - -
Eric S. Weiss 

--- On Fri, 10/2/09, Eric S. Weiss <papaweiss1 at yahoo.com> wrote:


From: Eric S. Weiss <papaweiss1 at yahoo.com>
Subject: Meaning/application of TO AUTO ("the same") in 1 Cor 10:3-4
To: "b-greek" <b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org>
Date: Friday, October 2, 2009, 12:33 AM







The context of 1 Corinthians 10 suggests, at least initially to me, that the "all" who ate 
"the same" spiritual food (10:3) and drank "the same" spiritual drink (10:4) is primarily to 
be contrasted with "the many" of them with whom God was not pleased and who 
subsequently fell or perished. I.e., though "all" of them ate and drank "the same" things, 
not all of them escaped God's wrath.
 
However, Paul brings into 10:4b that it was from Christ Himself that they were drinking - 
which seems to link the Israelites' spiritual eating and drinking with the communion the 
Christian church partakes of at the Lord's Table (the subject of 1 Cor 10:14-22).
 
Can Paul also thus possibly be suggesting when he writes "the same" that the 
Israelites were eating and drinking "the same" spiritual food and drink that the Christians in 
Corinth now eat and drink in communion? I.e., can "the same" in 10:3 and 10:4 also be 
interpreted to mean that the Israelites did "the same" thing that Paul's Corinthian 
congregants do in terms of what they partake of (and because they do it while unworthily 
treating or regarding their poorer brothers and sisters, or by not discriminating between 
pagans' tables of demons and the Christians' Table of the Lord, they could and did suffer 
"the same" consequences as the Israelites - i.e., arouse the Lord to jealousy (10:22), and 
become sick and even die (11:30))?
 
I.e., does Greek grammar or syntax prevent or preclude this second or expanded 
understanding of what Paul might have meant by saying they ate "the same" spiritual food 
and drank "the same" spiritual drink - even if it may be not as likely as the first 
interpretation I gave (which is perhaps the more generally accepted one)?
 
(I see in NA-27 that there are textual variants for both these instances of TO AUTO - e.g., 
P46 simply has TO in both places - but USB 4 does not note or comment on these 
variants, and accepts the NA-27 text.)
 
- - -
Eric S. Weiss 
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