[B-Greek] BDAG on TI ZHTEITE
cwconrad2 at mac.com
Fri Oct 2 14:07:07 EDT 2009
On Oct 2, 2009, at 1:52 PM, Daniel, Robert S wrote:
> I was thinking that the way the entry for ZHTEW is organized, it
> might be construed to exclude the sense, for TI + ZHTEW, of locating
> something geographically. But you are saying that there is nothing
> about tacking on TI in front of ZHTEW that excludes that
> specifically geographical meaning? ZHTEW still has the full range of
> meaning that it would have if the TI were not present?
Why not? TI ZHTEITE? "What are you looking for?" or "What are you
researching" or "What is your heart's desire?"
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Carl Conrad [mailto:cwconrad2 at mac.com]
> Sent: Friday, October 02, 2009 11:32 AM
> To: Daniel, Robert S
> Cc: B-Greek
> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] BDAG on TI ZHTEITE
> On Oct 2, 2009, at 12:15 PM, Daniel, Robert S wrote:
>> I looked up ZHTEW in BDAG to find what meaning it assigns to the
>> usage in John 1:38. They list this usage under the third meaning,
>> which has to do with desire and wishes, and specifically say that
>> here it means "What do you want?"
> Text: John 1:38 στραφεὶς δὲ ὁ Ἰησοῦς καὶ
> θεασάμενος αὐτοὺς ἀκολουθοῦντας
> λέγει αὐτοῖς· τί ζητεῖτε; οἱ δὲ
> εἶπαν αὐτῷ· ῥαββί, ὃ λέγεται
> μεθερμηνευόμενον διδάσκαλε, ποῦ
> μένεις; [John 1:38 STRAFEIS DE hO IHSOUS KAI QEASAMENOS AUTOUS
> AKOLOUQOUNTAS LEGEI AUTOIS· TI ZHTEITE; hOI DE EIPAN AUTWi· hRABBI,
> hO LEGETAI MEQERMHNEUOMENON DIDASKALE, POU MENEIS; ]
> Perhaps this is a matter of interpretation, but in John's gospel, I
> would understand the question "TI ZHTEITE?" in the broadest possible
> sense, "What is it that you are really looking for?" -- just as I
> would understand the question "POU MENEIS?" in the broadest possible
> sense, "What is your 'abode'?" Verbs and nouns in John's gospel have a
> tendency to point beyond any concrete temporal-spatial reference
> toward spiritual realities and possibilities.
>> They also mention "TI ZHTEIS" in Gen. 37:15 as a species of this
>> usage. Especially in the Gen 37:15 usage, it seems that the question
>> clearly has to do with the attempt to determine the geographical
>> location of something, in this case Joseph's brothers, and not with
>> Joseph's wishes or desires. I think it was the first meaning given
>> for ZHTEW that has to do with determining the location of something
>> in space (sorry, I don't have my copy of BDAG at hand at the
>> moment), so listing TI + ZHTEW under the third meaning seems to
>> exclude this sense.
> BDAG has "c. w. interrog. pron. τί ζητεῖτε; [TI ZHTEITE?]
> (cp. Gen 37:15) what do you want?"
> I wouldn't fault BDAG on this either. A stranger roaming around
> gawking in every direction may well elicit from one who accosts him
> the broad question, "What is it you're after in these parts, mister?"
> i.e. "What is it that you're really looking for?"
>> So there seems to me to be a disconnect here. Can someone explain
>> why BDAG chose to assign this particular meaning to "TI ZHTEITE"? Am
>> I perhaps not understanding the BDAG entry correctly, or is the BDAG
>> entry wrong, or something in between?
>> Originally this question came up because I was trying to find out
>> why the NIV translates Jesus' question in John 1:38 as "What do you
>> want?" whereas the NRSV has it "What do you seek?" Seeking seems to
>> carry the sense of determining the spatial location of some object
>> or person (e.g. Jesus' temporary residence), whereas wanting does
>> not. Of course this is a translation question, so off bounds to the
>> list, but I believe the question of meaning is not off bounds, so
>> please take my question as a question of meaning and of what might
>> lie behind BDAG's choice of what meaning to assign to this usage.
> There's room for disagreement here, but I do think that interpreters
> and translators of John's gospel probably tend to view questions such
> as, "What are you looking for?" as potentially open-ended, suggesting
> something more than a concrete specific answer.
> Carl W. Conrad
> Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)
> B-Greek home page: http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek
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