[B-Greek] hPER DE

Elizabeth Kline kline_dekooning at earthlink.net
Thu May 28 11:26:42 EDT 2009


Iver,

TOUTWN KAI TWN KATA MEROS and what is said in the preceding context  
are coreferential. The fact that different levels of detail are  
suggested doesn't override the fact that they point to the same thing.

DE can be used to introduce contrast, but it is commonly used as a  
bland conjunction with a function of "addition" which seems to be the  
most obvious way to understand it here. To read here a note of  
contrast between the "executive summary" and the promised KAI TWN KATA  
MEROS seems a bit forced. On this topic, and its details, I have read  
S.Levinsohn numerous times over fifteen years and will have to admit  
that I find his treatment of DE difficult to accept.

Thank you,

Elizabeth Kline

On May 27, 2009, at 10:14 PM, Iver Larsen wrote:

>>
>> While working through the Iver's comments on PERI DE in Paul, I was
>> reading Helma Dik:2007 [1] and her discussion of themes, topics, and
>> so forth. Rather than use her examples from Thucid. which might not  
>> go
>> down well here, I found a passage 2Mac. 11:20 which illustrates a
>> fronted constituent, introduced by hPER DE, which is used to link the
>> following statement with the shared information from the preceding
>> context.
>>
>> 2Mac. 11:20 ὑπὲρ δὲ τούτων καὶ τῶν κατὰ
>> μέρος ἐντέταλμαι τούτοις τε καὶ
>> τοῖς παρ᾿ ἐμοῦ διαλεχθῆναι ὑμῖν
>>
>> 2MAC. 11:20 hUPER DE TOUTWN KAI TWN KATA MEROS ENTETALMAI TOUTOIS TE
>> KAI TOIS PAR᾿ EMOU DIALECQHNAI hUMIN
>>
>> The fronted constituent  hUPER DE TOUTWN KAI TWN KATA MEROS is
>> anaphoric, summing up what has been said in the immediately preceding
>> context and therefor can be assumed to be shared information. It
>> serves to tie the former statements to ENTETALMAI TOUTOIS TE KAI TOIS
>> PAR᾿ EMOU DIALECQHNAI hUMIN.
>
> I think this illustrates that hUPER can function in certain contexts  
> like PERI,
> but it not as common a PERI. There is also a PERI DE TOUTWN in 2 Mac  
> 4:43, where
> the TOUTWN is anaphoric as it usually is, but PERI points forward to  
> the charges
> leveled against Menelaos.
>
> Although TOUTWN is anaphoric the new theme introduced is shown by  
> KATA MEROS. I
> am afraid I do not agree that the hUPER phrase as a whole is  
> anaphoric, nor that
> it sums up the preceding context.




>
> NRSV has the following translation of the letter concerned:
> "16 The letter written to the Jews by Lysias was to this effect:
> “Lysias to the people of the Jews, greetings. 17 John and Absalom,  
> who were sent
> by you, have delivered your signed communication and have asked  
> about the
> matters indicated in it. 18 I have informed the king of everything  
> that needed
> to be brought before him, and he has agreed to what was possible. 19  
> If you will
> maintain your goodwill toward the government, I will endeavor in the  
> future to
> help promote your welfare. 20 And concerning such matters and their  
> details, I
> have ordered these men and my representatives to confer with you. 21  
> Farewell.
> The one hundred forty-eighth year, Dioscorinthius twenty- 
> fourth.” (164 BC)
>
> Verses 16 to 19 gives the "executive summary" of Lysias' response  
> without
> details. He acknowledges receipt of their letter, and after having  
> discussed it
> with the king gives a promise of support, if the Jews show goodwill.  
> The DE in
> 20 introduces a new paragraph, a change from the general to the  
> specific and
> from what has been done to what will be done in that he says:  
> Concerning the
> details of these matters, my representatives (who carry the  
> response) and yours
> will discuss it. In my view, the fronting contrasts the general  
> response already
> given in the letter to the specific and detailed discussion to come  
> later.









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