[B-Greek] 2COR. 1:8 AGNOEIN hUPER ...

Nikolaos Adamou nikolaos.adamou at hotmail.com
Mon May 25 15:21:03 EDT 2009


Carl is right, ignore something, and this something (PERI TINOS) can take many forms. a) Peri + genitive, b) hoti + nominative & hoti + Verb, c) or just nominative.
In this case that Elizabeth has the question, the syntax is:
agnoein oti ebarēthēmen (hoti + Verb).
the rest are modifiers (PROSDIORISMOI)




a) (peri + Genitive)



1 Thessalonians 4:13

Οὐ
θέλομεν δὲ
ὑμᾶς
ἀγνοεῖν,
ἀδελφοί,
περὶ
τῶν κοιμωμένων, 

ou
thelomen de umas agnoein adelphoi peri tōn kekoimēmenōn,



agnoein
peri tōn kekoimēmenōn (peri + Genitive)



1 Corinthians 12:1

Περὶ δὲ τῶν πνευματικῶν, ἀδελφοί, οὐ
θέλω ὑμᾶς ἀγνοεῖν.

peri
de tōn pneumatikōn, adelphoi, ou thelō umas agnoein.


agnoein
peri tōn pneumatikōn (peri
+ Genitive)

b) (hoti + nominative) & (hoti + Verb)

1 Corinthians 10:1
Οὐ θέλω γὰρ ὑμᾶς ἀγνοεῖν, ἀδελφοί, ὅτι οἱ πατέρες ἡμῶν πάντες ὑπὸ τὴν νεφέλην
ou thelō gar umas agnoein adelphoi oti oi pateres ēmōn pantes upo tēn nephelēn 

agnoein oti oi pateres (hoti + nominative) 

Romans 1:13
οὐ θέλω δὲ ὑμᾶς ἀγνοεῖν, ἀδελφοί, ὅτι πολλάκις προεθέμην ἐλθεῖν πρὸς ὑμᾶς 
ou thelō de umas agnoein adelphoi oti pollakis proethemēn elthein pros umas

agnoein hOTI proethemēn (hoti + Verb)

2 Corinthians 1:8 
Οὐ γὰρ θέλομεν ὑμᾶς ἀγνοεῖν,  
ἀδελφοί, ὑπὲρ τῆς θλίψεως ἡμῶν τῆς  
γενομένης ἐν τῇ Ἀσίᾳ, ὅτι καθ᾿  
ὑπερβολὴν ὑπὲρ δύναμιν ἐβαρήθημεν  

ou gar thelomen umas agnoein, adelphoi uper tēs thlipseōs ēmōn
tēs genomenēs ēmin en tē asia, oti kath
uperbolēn uper dunamin ebarēthēmen 



agnoein oti ebarēthēmen (hoti + Verb)

3) (nominative



Romas 11:25

Οὐ γὰρ θέλω ὑμᾶς ἀγνοεῖν, ἀδελφοί,
τὸ μυστήριον τοῦτο, ἵνα μὴ 

ou
gar thelō umas agnoein adelphoi to mustērion touto

agnoein to
mustērion (nominative)





> From: kline_dekooning at earthlink.net
> To: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> Date: Mon, 25 May 2009 11:57:43 -0700
> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] 2COR. 1:8 AGNOEIN hUPER ...
> 
> 
> On May 25, 2009, at 3:59 AM, Carl Conrad wrote:
> 
> > On the other hand, this text is very similar to
> > 1Th. 4:13 	Οὐ θέλομεν δὲ ὑμᾶς ἀγνοεῖν,  
> > ἀδελφοί, περὶ τῶν κοιμωμένων, ἵνα  
> > μὴ λυπῆσθε καθὼς καὶ οἱ λοιποὶ οἱ  
> > μὴ ἔχοντες ἐλπίδα.
> > OU QELOMEN DE hUMAS AGNOEIN, ADELFOI, PERI TWN KOIMWMENWN, hINA MH  
> > LUPHQHSQE KAQWS KAI hO;I LOIPOI hOI MH ECONTES ELPIDA.
> >
> > and BDAG, s.v. hUPER notes as sense A.3:
> >
> > 	3. marker of general content, whether of a discourse or mental  
> > activity, about, concerning (about equivalent to περί  
> > [τινος] {PERI TINOS}, w. which it is freq. interchanged in the  
> > mss.; ...
> >
> > I wouldn't affirm Harris' judgment in this instance.
> 
> Carl,
> 
> I would agree that PERI TWN KOIMWMENWN functions like hUPER ... EN THi  
> ASIAi. However, hINA in 1Th. 4:13 looks to me like it introduces a  
> desired result (negated by MH), not the content of the ignorance.  
> Whereas, in 2COR. 1:8 the hOTI clause appears to be  
> "presentational" (M.Sim's term) describing the nature/content of the  
> ignorance. This is one thing M.Harris objects to, having two  
> descriptions of the content of AGNOEIN. He claims this never happens  
> in the Pauline corpus.
> 
> 2Cor. 1:8 Οὐ γὰρ θέλομεν ὑμᾶς ἀγνοεῖν,  
> ἀδελφοί, ὑπὲρ τῆς θλίψεως ἡμῶν τῆς  
> γενομένης ἐν τῇ Ἀσίᾳ, ὅτι καθ᾿  
> ὑπερβολὴν ὑπὲρ δύναμιν ἐβαρήθημεν  
> ὥστε ἐξαπορηθῆναι ἡμᾶς καὶ τοῦ  
> ζῆν·
> 
> 2COR. 1:8 OU GAR QELOMEN hUMAS AGNOEIN, ADELFOI, hUPER THS QLIYEWS  
> hHMWN THS GENOMENHS EN THi ASIAi, hOTI KAQ᾿ hUPERBOLHN hUPER DUNAMIN  
> EBARHQHMEN hWSTE EXAPORHQHNAI hHMAS KAI TOU ZHN·
> 
> M.Harris assumes, as do others (P.E. Huges 1962), that the Corinthians  
> allready knew about Paul's QLIYEWS. What they didn't know was the  
> severity of it. If that was the case, then the hUPER clause could be  
> viewed as contextualizer, something similar to a participle clause  
> used in narative to link what follows to what preceeds. That brings up  
> the question of constituent order. I was under the impression that  
> contextualizers generally preceed the main verb.
> 
> Another problem with Harris. He appears to assume that the NT Pauline  
> corpus qualifies as a database for grammatical research. Any argument  
> that starts out saying "Paul never does this or that ..."  implies  
> that we can use a very small collection of texts to determine what is  
> permissible, e.g. two clauses describing content with AGNOEIN.
> 
> 
> 
> Thank you,
> Elizabeth Kline
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ---
> B-Greek home page: http://www.ibiblio.org/bgreek
> B-Greek mailing list
> B-Greek at lists.ibiblio.org
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