[B-Greek] Euripides : AFRODITH... EPISHMOS EN BROTOIS

Carl Conrad cwconrad2 at mac.com
Tue May 19 05:45:21 EDT 2009


Steven (and Stephen):

For my part, I can't see any useful purpose in rehashing yet once more  
the questions regarding Junia in Roman 16:7. As you have noted, much  
water has gone under the bridge and much ink has been spilled on this  
issue since 2000. I personally have felt that the little 2005 book by  
Eldon Epp and Beverly Gaventa examined the issues and their history  
pretty thoroughly and resolved them -- to my view -- judiciously.  
You've mentioned The Burer-Wallace article and some other items.  
Relatively recently (i.e., last month!) Suzanne McCarthy has discussed  
these issues on her blog: see http://powerscourt.blogspot.com/search/label/Junia

I think there are few who will hold out nowadays for reading IOUNIAN  
as a masculine name; on the other hand, I rather suspect that opinion  
will continue to be divided over the right interpretation of the  
phrase EPISHMOI EN TOIS APOSTOLOIS -- and very likely divided along  
lines of the predispositions of the opiners.

Carl W. Conrad
Department of Classics, Washington University (Retired)


On May 18, 2009, at 7:38 PM, Steven Cox wrote:

>
> Hello b-greekers
> (1) Following on from the 1992 TLG search question about "man of one  
> wife" and "wife of one husband" --- and resounding failure to find  
> any trace of an idiom in TLG --- the question I now ask about Romans  
> 16:7 is going to look as though I personally have an interest in the  
> egalitarian debate. *I don't* - it's something I managed to avoid  
> like the plague in the 90s on B-Greek... it's simply what I'm being  
> asked :(
>
> (2) like every good schoolboy should I first went to LSJ to check  
> use of EPISHMOS and easily found Euripides Hipp.106 : AFRODITH...  
> EPISHMOS EN BROTOIS - "Aphrodite .. esteemed among mortals" which  
> seems a too-good-to-be-true parallel of Andronikos and Junia  
> EPISHMOS EN APOSTOLOIS.
>
> (3) also had a quick browse of some of the other texts for EPISHMOS  
> on Perseus.
>
> (4) I then Googled [Junia "EN BROTOIS"] on B-Greek archives, and  
> came up with several posts including the one from Stephen Carlson,  
> and comments after by Carl, below showing two cases of EPISHEMOS +  
> genitive:
> 3 Macc. 6:1 ELEAZAROS DE TIS ANHR EPISHMOS TWN APO THS CWRAS hEIRWN  
> "And Eleazar, who was a prominent man of the priests from the country"
> and Mart. Poly. 14:1 KRIOS EPISHMOS EK MEGALOU POIMNIOU "a prominent  
> ram from a great flock."
>
>
> (5) I then did some digging - and was amazed to find a whole  
> wikipedia article on Romans 16:7 (which must win a prize, does  
> anyone know of any other NT verse which has its own wikipedia page?) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junia
>
> (6) Get to the Questions! .....  has anyone sighted Belleville or  
> Bauckham below and if so are there any shattering grammatical  
> revelations?
>
> (7) Does anyone have any other sources outside Euripides Hippolytus  
> 106, 3 Macc. 6:1 and Mart. Poly. 14:1 which would illustrate  
> EPISHMOS EN+, or EPISHMOS EK+
>
> (8) For a bit of fun (since the above isn't much fun) I had a peek at
> http://multilingualbible.com/romans/16-7.htm and was amused at how  
> many other languages can be either totally ambiguous or totally  
> clear regarding whether the structure "A is X in/from group B."  
> includes or excludes A from membership of the group. Just so I can  
> impress/intimidate someone at church buffets, is there a clever  
> grammatical term I should know for this distinction? :)
>
> Thanks
> Steven
>
>
> (5) WIKIPEDIA
> In 2001, Michael Burer and Daniel B. Wallace wrote a journal article
> entitled "Was Junia Really An Apostle? A Re-examination of Romans
> 16.7", NTS 47. In it Burer and Wallace, accepting that Junia was a
> woman, asserted that she was well known to the Apostles rather than
> prominent among the Apostles. The working hypothesis is that if Paul
> had meant to communicate that Junia was prominent among the Apostles,
> then he would have used episamoi with a genitive. That is the way
> inclusion within a group is indicated within Greek. He used episamoi
> with en and the dative, which according to their hypothesis means they
> are excluded from the group. There are no exceptions. This is
> articulated above by the comment that the Jews were not among the
> Gentiles.
>
> Recently, Linda Belleville, Richard Bauckham, and Eldon Epp have
> taken on the task of correcting some of the above findings pertaining
> to Junia. Belleville's article is in NTS and is titled
> "Iounian...episamoi en tois apostolois: A Re-examination of Romans  
> 16.7
> in Light of Primary Source Materials" NTS 51 (2005). Bauckham's book
> "Gospel Women" devotes several pages to interacting, refuting, and
> correcting the Burer and Wallace article. Epp in his book "Junia: The
> First Woman Apostle" covers the whole gamut pertaining to Junia.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Stephen C. Carlson
>    scarlson at mindspring.com
>    Sun Apr  2 18:30:56 EDT 2000
>
> At 10:27 AM 3/31/00 -0600, Carl W. Conrad wrote:
>> The text: ASPASASQE ANDRONIKON KAI IOUNIAN TOUS SUGGENEIS MOU KAI
>> SUNAICMALWTOUS MOU, hOITINES EISIN EPISHMOI EN TOIS APOSTOLOIS, hOI  
>> KAI PRO
>> EMOU GEGONAN EN CRISTWi.
>>
>> For my part, I can only say that readers of this text who come to it
>> already convinced that a woman could not have been an APOSTOLOS  
>> will find a
>> way to make EPISHMOI EN TOIS APOSTOLOIS function as the grammatical
>> equivalent of TIMHQEISAI hUPO TWN APOSTOLWN, while readers who are
>> open-minded to the possibility that a woman MAY have been an  
>> APOSTOLOS will
>> find it most natural to understand the phrase EPISHMOI EN TOIS  
>> APOSTOLOIS
>> as "distinguished among the apostles." I have more sympathy (just a  
>> little
>> bit--not very much) for those who still want to believe that  
>> IOUNIAN is
>> masculine than for those who want to understand EPISHMOS EN TOIS  
>> APOSTOLOIS
>> to mean "CONSIDERED prominent BY the apostles."
>
> Well, I have the opposite opinion.  The masculine IOUNIAN
> is untenable, but the view EPISHMOI EN TOIS APOSTOLOIS =
> "prominent among (= in the opinion of) the apostles" is
> quite defensible.
>
> First, other examples of the phrase EPISHMOI EN ... support
> this construction.  For example, Euripides, Hippolytus 106,
> refers to Aphrodite as KAPISTHMOS EN BROTOIS "prominent among
> mortals."  The goddess Aphrodite was not, of course, a mortal,
> but merely well thought of my mortals.
>
> Second, other examples of EN shows a primary locative, but
> secondary agentival, sense.  For example, Rom 2:24 TO GAR
> ONOMA TOU QEOU DI hUMAS BLASFHMEITAI EN TOIS EQNESIN. "For
> the name of God because of us is blasphemed among (by)
> the Gentiles."  Other examples include Luke 16:15 TO EN
> ANQRWPOIS hUYHLON "what is exalted among (by) people"
> and John 7:12 KAI GOGGUSMOS PERI AUTOU HN POLUS EN TOIS
> OCLOIS "and there was much murmuring about him among (by)
> the crowd."
>
> Finally, if Paul intended to mean that Andronicus and
> Junia were prominent apostles, he should have used a
> partitive construction as in: 3 Macc. 6:1 ELEAZAROS DE
> TIS ANHR EPISHMOS TWN APO THS CWRAS hEIRWN "And Eleazar,
> who was a prominent man of the priests from the country"
> and Mart. Poly. 14:1 KRIOS EPISHMOS EK MEGALOU POIMNIOU
> "a prominent ram from a great flock."
>
> For these reasons, I conclude that Rom 16:7 means that
> Andronicus and Junia were well thought of among (by)
> the apostles.
>
> Stephen Carlson








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