[B-Greek] Present tense for future events (was 1 John 1.9)
edmishoe at yahoo.com
Thu May 14 00:26:47 EDT 2009
I have to be honest and say I really don't understand what is driving your question. You state: Iver refers to ‘deictic center’ as a theoretical construct.
I can't imagine Iver or anyone stating this. The deictic center is a word or phrase that establishes some point on the time line. There is nothing 'theoretical' about a deictic center, nor is it an advanced concept. English is no different. Native English users, even if unknown to them, use deictic centers on a daily basis.
Your analogy tells me that you have yet to study much about Tense and Verbal Aspect. And your other stated concerns really seem to be asking 'What good is it if we discuss something very technical or advanced out here on B-Greek since many list members are beginners? This is almost an inappropriate question.
This site (B-Greek) is for people at all levels of Greek, from beginners to scholars. Beginners will have to accept the fact that they are not ready to get too deep into Verbal Aspect. When someone posts a topic that they (beginners) don't understand, it will help them to read it and try to get as much out of an advanced discussion as they can. For the scholars out here, they may be asking questions that people who have a good understanding of biblical Greek can't understand. The goal is not to communicate at the lowest common denominator. Scholars oftentimes communicate with other scholars, and us neophytes have to recognize this and try to learn from them the best we can do.
Anyway, don't worry if a technical question is asked, even a question at an advanced level of Greek. In other words, I would not try to degrade people out here who have a more advanced understanding than others. We just need to try our best to learn from them.
I think you would do yourself a favor if you read the FAQ page.
--- On Wed, 5/13/09, John Sanders <john.franklin.sanders at gmail.com> wrote:
> From: John Sanders <john.franklin.sanders at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] Present tense for future events (was 1 John 1.9)
> To: edmishoe at yahoo.com
> Date: Wednesday, May 13, 2009, 11:30 PM
> My friend Eddie, if you will
> allow me to so address you as my friend,
> I have a great respect for
> Iver Larson’s understanding of Koine Greek, but I do
> differ with him on this issue (if I understand his position
> I have not read anything
> directly by Dr. Porter, although I should shortly be in
> possession of an electronic version of his study on rhetoric
> in the Hellenic world.
> Iver refers to ‘deictic
> center’ as a theoretical construct. I thought it was an analytical tool and I
> am not certain that it is restricted to any one theoretical
> construct, but I have limited knowledge in this
> I am thinking that we may be
> better served in not relying on the analytical tools,
> technical terms, and abstractions that we may have used to
> come to an understanding; but rather present our
> understanding in as simple and directs terms as possible.
> If I may use a metaphor, it is as if
> I dug up a box and the debate shifts to whether a pick was
> better or the shovel better in digging up the
> There is another
> aspect that can be considered. For
> those on the list who wish to learn Koine Greek as a second
> language, how does the discussion help them, if it can help
> them at all? And for those on the
> list who wish to develop their skills in analyzing Koine
> Greek, how does the discussion help them, if it can help
> them at all?
> John Sanders
> Suzhou, China
> On Tue, May 12, 2009 at 9:58 PM,
> Eddie Mishoe <edmishoe at yahoo.com>
> Iver rejects the Deictic Center position altogether, which
> I note you accept, as do I. What I'm mystified by is
> Porter's grasp of deictic indicators AND his rejection
> of the temporal nature of the Indicative verb system. I
> think this is why he has not gained a large following. He
> has to resort to other linguistic phenomena and whatever
> those are, they are not intuitive or convincing.
> Eddie Mishoe
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