[B-Greek] 1 John 1.9 Ed Glasscock in latest BibSac

Rod Rogers rngrogers at embarqmail.com
Wed May 6 11:18:11 EDT 2009


Mitch, first of all I have not read Dr.
Glasscock's article. I would like to. Also,
sorry about misunderstanding you. I was
responding the way I did in light of your
question, "Does the Present Tense verb
(hOMOLOGEW) really refer to some ongoing
process?". Therefore the question in it's
context is, "Do we continuously confess,
confess in present time only or some other
aspect of the present tense?" While I agree
with Dave, George and Carl I don't believe
any of what they said necessarily sheds light
on 1 John 1:9. My point is that just because
a present tense in a certain verse indicates
a certain aspect, that only widens the
possibilities of what a present could mean in
1 John 1:9, it doesn't tell us what the
present in 1 John 1:9 means. I didn't see
where George or Carl actually answered your
question of, "Does the Present Tense verb
(hOMOLOGEW) really refer to some ongoing
process?" because I took your question to
refer to the context of 1 John 1:9 not just
can hOMOLOGEW ever refer to some ongoing
process. My mistake.

Mitch, I still maintain that you must
determine the context of 1 John 1:9 (who is
the We and what is the context of the We?) in
order to come to a correct understanding of
hOMOLOGEW and AFHi in verse 10. I'm not
quoting any rule or book, just passing along
what helped me to understand this important
passage and book.

rod rogers
Bargersville, In






----- Original Message -----
From: Mitch Larramore
To: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org ; Rod Rogers
Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2009 5:50 AM
Subject: Re: [B-Greek] 1 John 1.9 Ed
Glasscock in latest BibSac



Rod:

I want to put in front of us my first
question that is deemed "forbidden." It read
as follows:

Does the Present Tense verb (hOMOLOGEW)
really refer to some ongoing process? Does a
Present Tense verb direct the readers'
attention to the future, ever? I'm not sure I
see how a Present Tense verb speaks to any
issues beyond the "present."

My concern is whether or not a Present Tense
ever refers to the FUTURE. This was what Ed
Glasscock says in the BibSac article. My
question is about the temporal nature of a
Present Tense verb(al) and whether or not a
Present Tense FORM has the capacity to
include more than the 'present time.' My hope
was to move the discussion to its Grammatical
Aspect (the form of a verbal) and its
temporal aspect.

I think if the Present Tense, by its "in
progress" aspect, refers to some 'ongoing
process (off into the future),' then we will
need to say this about all Present Tense
verbals. Wouldn't that alone create havoc as
we translate the GNT. But, if we limit any
Present Tense verb to a temporal "currently
in progress," then we can limit its temporal
aspect to the present time. I think the
Future Tense verbs are used if the author
wants to make a comment about the future. I
just don't see how we can allow a Present
Tense verb to have any reference to the
future. This is what I'm trying to get
feedback on.

Mitch Larramore
Sugar Land, Texas


--- On Tue, 5/5/09, Rod Rogers
<rngrogers at embarqmail.com> wrote:

> From: Rod Rogers <rngrogers at embarqmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [B-Greek] 1 John 1.9 Ed
Glasscock in latest BibSac
> To: b-greek at lists.ibiblio.org
> Date: Tuesday, May 5, 2009, 9:45 PM
> Mitch, in your first question you are
> asking
> a forbidden question on this list. Maybe
that
> is why no one has addressed your question.
> You asked, "Does the Present Tense verb
> (hOMOLOGEW) really refer to some ongoing
> process?", What you are really asking,
> couched in a grammatical question is, "Do I
> need to continually ask for forgiveness for
> my sins as a believer?", "Does hOMOLOGEW
mean
> continuously confess?". Grammar alone is in
> sufficient to answer your question, I
> believe. Context determines how hOMOLOGEW
is
> understood in this verse. I would suggest
you
> determine if this is a "PRE" or "POST"
> salvation confession and if this verse is
> directed toward the believer or unbeliever.
> Until you determine what context 1 John 1:9
> falls in you will be hopelessly guessing at
> it's meaning.
>
> As to your second question, "Is that the
> function of the Aorist Tense (in any mood)
to
> indicate 'actuality'?", I believe the
answer
> is no. I believe that the subjunctive mood
is
> used here to establish the potential of the
> forgiveness of sins. That potential is only
> met when one confesses his sins. The $64.00
> question is, "When does this happen"? I'll
> leave that up to you.
>
> rod rogers
> Bargersville, In
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Mitch Larramore
> To: B Greek
> Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2009 2:11 AM
> Subject: [B-Greek] 1 John 1.9 Ed Glasscock
in
> latest BibSac
>
>
>
> Ed Glasscock, an unknown to me, has an
> article in BibSac on 1 John 1.9 and I
wanted
> to ask a question or two on comments he
> makes.
>
> "The present tense verb "confess" implies a
> continual process of confessing, which
> indicates the continual potential of sin in
a
> believer's life."
>
> Does the Present Tense verb (hOMOLOGEW)
> really refer to some ongoing process? Does
a
> Present Tense verb direct the readers'
> attention to the future, ever? I'm not sure
I
> see how a Present Tense verb speaks to any
> issues beyond the "present."
>
> "The verb AFHi is an aorist subjunctive
> verb..." [In a footnote he adds, "The
aorist
> simply asserts the actuality of the
> event..."]
>
> Is that the function of the Aorist Tense
(in
> any mood) to indicate 'actuality'? I can
see
> an Indicative Mood denoting 'actuality,'
but
> not an Aorist verb, or a Subjunctive Mood
> verbal, ever.
>
> Mitch Larramore
> Sugar Land, Texas
>
>
>
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